Showing posts with label protein. Show all posts
Showing posts with label protein. Show all posts
Friday, February 19, 2010
Curb my protein enthusiasm: single factor thinking fails again
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Yesterday i wrote a piece reviewing an article that showed that 30g of whole protein was all that could be synthesized by resting muscle, so we can all just chill about how much protein we take in at a feeding. And indeed, there's one more reason to spread out one's protein intake over the course of a day. One more reason (not the only reason) Mutliple feedings rock!
I have just finished revising that article to be far more restrained in its celebration. I think it's a much better/fairer piece now, anyway. Dam it. Because now while more accurate, it's far less conclusive.
This revision fervour first started with some interesting conflations i was hearing between absorption and synthesis - how are these related, and conflations between some folks saying one MUST take on 30g of protein every few hours vs what the article suggested - that's the MAX one could utilize - if one is 80kg or thereabouts, not what one *should* take on. Minimums aren't established; only maxs. And only for acute uptake. With the interesting finding that this result seems age and gender independent.
Then i went back to my minute with Mike about the Protein Window and how that doesn't really close in a day - so why would protein only be usable to that max amount in that 3hr window of the study?
Then i checked a few references looking at lean mass over time with one meal vs three meals (no grazing just 1 or 3), and lean muscle maintenance (see revised post for the details)
And then to cap it all off Chris Highcock of conditioning research kindly pointed me at Eat STop Eat Brad Pilons How Much Protein, and well, what's the take away if you don't feel like going back to look at the study (where all the refs to the following points are):
What *is* reinforced in the related work with the study presented is that more likely than not LESS is more - whether at rest or working out. That the 70-120 g range may be just as productive at mass building as any higher amounts, and that if one goes for higher protein amounts (like 160 grams if 80kg), while one's system can safely absorb that, it mayn't be using it for muscle building.
Once again, single factor thinking dun't work - well. Creatine in the mix does. Precision Nutrition (very multi-factor) does; Chris Highcock does. Mike T. Nelson does. Georgie Fear does and so it seems does Brad Pilon. and i'd like to, too, though it may take me a few tries. Tweet Follow @begin2dig
I have just finished revising that article to be far more restrained in its celebration. I think it's a much better/fairer piece now, anyway. Dam it. Because now while more accurate, it's far less conclusive.
This revision fervour first started with some interesting conflations i was hearing between absorption and synthesis - how are these related, and conflations between some folks saying one MUST take on 30g of protein every few hours vs what the article suggested - that's the MAX one could utilize - if one is 80kg or thereabouts, not what one *should* take on. Minimums aren't established; only maxs. And only for acute uptake. With the interesting finding that this result seems age and gender independent.
Then i went back to my minute with Mike about the Protein Window and how that doesn't really close in a day - so why would protein only be usable to that max amount in that 3hr window of the study?
Then i checked a few references looking at lean mass over time with one meal vs three meals (no grazing just 1 or 3), and lean muscle maintenance (see revised post for the details)
And then to cap it all off Chris Highcock of conditioning research kindly pointed me at Eat STop Eat Brad Pilons How Much Protein, and well, what's the take away if you don't feel like going back to look at the study (where all the refs to the following points are):
- Acute responses to muscle protein synthesis are not necessarily the same as lean mass maintenance or growth over time
- If one's thinking mass building thoughts the exercise and creatine may be more critical than protein
- Protein timing may not be an issue for muscle mass. The pluses of nutrient timing may be elsewhere found - like glucose and other hormone regulation/performance.
What *is* reinforced in the related work with the study presented is that more likely than not LESS is more - whether at rest or working out. That the 70-120 g range may be just as productive at mass building as any higher amounts, and that if one goes for higher protein amounts (like 160 grams if 80kg), while one's system can safely absorb that, it mayn't be using it for muscle building.
Once again, single factor thinking dun't work - well. Creatine in the mix does. Precision Nutrition (very multi-factor) does; Chris Highcock does. Mike T. Nelson does. Georgie Fear does and so it seems does Brad Pilon. and i'd like to, too, though it may take me a few tries. Tweet Follow @begin2dig
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Thursday, January 7, 2010
The mysterious wholes: whole protein, whole wheat, whole sprouts. What are these things and why should i care (should i?)
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What is a "whole protein"? And if you aren't a vegetarian do you need to care? And if grains complete veggies to make proteins, aren't grains evil these days - then can we still make whole proteins from plants? And what's whole wheat anyway? How's that different from sprouted grain? is that better? Are vegetarians driven mad by all this food science? Let's have a go.
Context: It started with Black Bean Soup. When i first
started going vegetarian it was a common saw to say oh wow if you eat beans you need rice to get a complete protein. I didn't think to consider what that meant; i just took it as gospel. More recently, when looking at veggie protein powders, folks will talk about their "profiles" to make decisions on which ones they want to use, when.
This morning, having some awesome homemade black bean soup as part of breakie, the beans and rice question came up again as we discussed the seeming regional differences across the south west in terms of ratio (or presence) of rice to beans in burritos & chimichangas. Is rice with beans part of the "whole protein" story, and is that story a myth?
The Skinny on "Complete" Proteins.
A whole or complete protein for a person consists two things:
As a refresher, essential amino acids (sometimes represented as EAA's) are the ones we can't synthesise from other foods, but need. Here's the table of EAA's and amounts.
Foods for Completeness
So now we know we're looking for EAA's in certain amounts in order to hit complete protein world. TO get it out of the way, meat, fish and dairy all are complete proteins. So let's set those aside for a sec. Different plants are EAA incomplete in different ways. Hence the reason for blending.
A trad heuristic'y way to get at combos is the grouping of same: group 1, breads, cereals, grains completes any of group 2 legumes, group 3 veggies, group 4 nuts and seeds.
We can get a little more refined about combinations of plant based foods based on understanding specifically what the "limiting amino acid" is - what EAA a food is lowest in and then design up from there.
There's a nice table with some examples here at sheknows listing foods low in say tryptophan (eg, green beans, brown rice) or lysine (eg, yams). So combine some of these together and get your EAA benefits. In other words, you don't even HAVE to use grains to get your wholes (though some sites still act like you do).
These are good lists to have since sites that focus on "amount of protein" in a plant item aren't conveying the, er, whole EAA picture.
What about beans and rice?? Does this mean that there's truth to the beans and rice combo afterall? Based on the above, seems that would depend on what kind of beans we're talking about. The wonderful black bean (which in some places seems to go by the name "turtle" bean), staple of the burito, has a far more complete profile than say even the kidney bean. Just take a look at the black bean's GORGEOUS protein profile. Better than 100% of the EAA's! Kidney beans, by contrast have a score of 89% - no slouch.
So, while the black bean seems a complete EAA source on its own, no acoutrements required, wrapping a kidney bean burrito up in a soft tortia (corn or wheat) takes care of the missing protein profiles, so rice seems like what it is: a cheap filler. Especially when it's white rice. Boo.
So given that getting one's lysine and tryptophan in order mean having to get all freaked out about the foods on the plate?
Maybe a bit. But not much. First thing, we don't need to have the combo complements all in the same meal. Second thing, just understanding that the combos are needed for full EAA'ness, one may want to get a handle on food favorites and see what are the usual best complements to put together, especially if - no matter how one feels about grains - one is just trying to cut back on those more calorically dense carb foods.
If you're curious, just check out the foods you usually like to plate, and then do a check on whether these make good EAA combos. Nutrition.com is an amazing resource here as it DOES give the complete EAA profile of a food.
On the plus side, if we're already eating a variety of foods (lots of colors on the plate), apparently the likelihood of being screwed out of EAA's is vanishingly small.
For the conscientious meat eater, understanding plant-based proteins offers up easy ways to cut back on meat consumption, dropping it back to a few times a week rather than daily, as the energy costs alone of meat are so so high. Once we get that we do get whole proteins from as simple a combo as a yam and a green bean, or just black beans, getting into richer, more colourful options may mean just that much more sweetness and eating delight.
i'd like to thank Ryan D. Andrews from Precision Nutrition and PN Forum Regular Ron Ipock and their exchange with me on the PN forum about grains for prompting me to dig further into these questions.
Related Posts
Context: It started with Black Bean Soup. When i first
started going vegetarian it was a common saw to say oh wow if you eat beans you need rice to get a complete protein. I didn't think to consider what that meant; i just took it as gospel. More recently, when looking at veggie protein powders, folks will talk about their "profiles" to make decisions on which ones they want to use, when.This morning, having some awesome homemade black bean soup as part of breakie, the beans and rice question came up again as we discussed the seeming regional differences across the south west in terms of ratio (or presence) of rice to beans in burritos & chimichangas. Is rice with beans part of the "whole protein" story, and is that story a myth?
The Skinny on "Complete" Proteins.
A whole or complete protein for a person consists two things:
- the Essential Amino Acids and
- the correct amounts
As a refresher, essential amino acids (sometimes represented as EAA's) are the ones we can't synthesise from other foods, but need. Here's the table of EAA's and amounts.
| Essential Amino Acid | mg/g of Protein |
|---|---|
| Tryptophan | 7 |
| Threonine | 27 |
| Isoleucine | 25 |
| Leucine | 55 |
| Lysine | 51 |
| Methionine+Cystine | 25 |
| Phenylalanine+Tyrosine | 47 |
| Valine | 32 |
| Histidine | 18 |
A wee aside - Histidine: Histidine is kind of a weird one it seems, that seems to be context dependent as to whether or not it's an EAA or non-EAA. It shows up in lists of non-essential AA's too.
Another Aside - BCAA's: You may note that the popular in the weight lifting space, branch chain amino acids or BCAA's are part of the EAA's - these are Isoleucine, Valine and Leucine. Why? As i understand it, they're metabolised in the muscle rather than the liver, so they are the onsite, on board amino's used for muscle building, of which the biggie is Leucine.A few more notes about the EAA's. In a piece by Lyle McDonald, McDonald makes a further clarification about AA's: essentially all proteins are complete proteins, in that they have all the AA's in them, but *some* of those AA's are there in differing amounts. So, the idea of combining foods is to bring together the missing bits, we'll talk about this next.
This finding has lead lots of folks to think BCAA's (or more recently just Leucine) must be the best way to go for muscle building. Well, it seems we're more complex than that. So while there are many many studies showing how great BCAA's are, for some strange reason, i can't find studies that pit say whey isolate head to head with BCAA's. Mike T. Nelson, who's doing research on metabolic flexibility, however, is not the only exercise expert recommending more complete packaging of EAA's for benefit (as per this minute with mike). Seems we also need the other things that come from complete proteins for all things bright and beautiful for food.
Foods for Completeness
So now we know we're looking for EAA's in certain amounts in order to hit complete protein world. TO get it out of the way, meat, fish and dairy all are complete proteins. So let's set those aside for a sec. Different plants are EAA incomplete in different ways. Hence the reason for blending.A trad heuristic'y way to get at combos is the grouping of same: group 1, breads, cereals, grains completes any of group 2 legumes, group 3 veggies, group 4 nuts and seeds.
We can get a little more refined about combinations of plant based foods based on understanding specifically what the "limiting amino acid" is - what EAA a food is lowest in and then design up from there.
There's a nice table with some examples here at sheknows listing foods low in say tryptophan (eg, green beans, brown rice) or lysine (eg, yams). So combine some of these together and get your EAA benefits. In other words, you don't even HAVE to use grains to get your wholes (though some sites still act like you do).
These are good lists to have since sites that focus on "amount of protein" in a plant item aren't conveying the, er, whole EAA picture.
What about beans and rice?? Does this mean that there's truth to the beans and rice combo afterall? Based on the above, seems that would depend on what kind of beans we're talking about. The wonderful black bean (which in some places seems to go by the name "turtle" bean), staple of the burito, has a far more complete profile than say even the kidney bean. Just take a look at the black bean's GORGEOUS protein profile. Better than 100% of the EAA's! Kidney beans, by contrast have a score of 89% - no slouch.
So, while the black bean seems a complete EAA source on its own, no acoutrements required, wrapping a kidney bean burrito up in a soft tortia (corn or wheat) takes care of the missing protein profiles, so rice seems like what it is: a cheap filler. Especially when it's white rice. Boo.
Aside: Grains? And for folks thinking no way i'm not doing grains; grains R evil - remember that whole grains, sprouted grains etc are way way far from evil and can make great choices for protein completeness.Variety Rules
They tend to get the evil label for a variety of reasons, but it seems few folks really discriminate between processed (low nutrition/high calories) and whole/sprouted grains (higher to high nutrition and lower cals).
And just a reminder on what 100% whole wheat means for example: that's when the whole durn seed - bran, germ, endosperm - is ground up into flour and used for whatever's being made.
Sprouting Aside By slight contrast, sprouted grains are living things(to make: get a whole grain - here's a list of candidates -from your local place to buy such food comestibles and soak 'em). To make bread, these sprouts get mashed up into a dough - not reduced to flour - and have up to three times the fiber of your whole grain flour. Isn't that interesting. Really - getting the daily requirement of fiber is no small thing. Lentils are super high relatively speaking, but every day? Also the enzymes that come along with sprouting can make the grain easier to digest. Germination apparently ups other nutrient content, too.
Given the above, how can whole grains be evil?
So given that getting one's lysine and tryptophan in order mean having to get all freaked out about the foods on the plate?
Maybe a bit. But not much. First thing, we don't need to have the combo complements all in the same meal. Second thing, just understanding that the combos are needed for full EAA'ness, one may want to get a handle on food favorites and see what are the usual best complements to put together, especially if - no matter how one feels about grains - one is just trying to cut back on those more calorically dense carb foods.If you're curious, just check out the foods you usually like to plate, and then do a check on whether these make good EAA combos. Nutrition.com is an amazing resource here as it DOES give the complete EAA profile of a food.
On the plus side, if we're already eating a variety of foods (lots of colors on the plate), apparently the likelihood of being screwed out of EAA's is vanishingly small.
For the conscientious meat eater, understanding plant-based proteins offers up easy ways to cut back on meat consumption, dropping it back to a few times a week rather than daily, as the energy costs alone of meat are so so high. Once we get that we do get whole proteins from as simple a combo as a yam and a green bean, or just black beans, getting into richer, more colourful options may mean just that much more sweetness and eating delight.
i'd like to thank Ryan D. Andrews from Precision Nutrition and PN Forum Regular Ron Ipock and their exchange with me on the PN forum about grains for prompting me to dig further into these questions.
Related Posts
- b2d nutrition article index
- Food Inc Discussion- the incredible-ness of the food industry driven by fast food
- Georgie Fear's Dig In Recipe Book-review
- Precision Nutrition v3 - with plant based approaches to eating - the best program to learn more about food and you.
Sunday, December 20, 2009
B2D Nutrition Article Index: All things Foodish on begin2dig
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begin2dig has a lot of posts about topics in nutrition, from discussions around nutrients (how does fat and fat burning work; what are carbs) to supplements (and quality of same), to what do various body fat percentages really look like to how rewiring the brain may be a critical part for diet success. To get a feel for b2d's take on nutrition, here's an index of articles organized from nutrients to nutrition resources. Hope this provides a useful reference point for your nutrition explorations.
Fat:
Respect the Fat: An overview of Fat Burning Goodness
Brown Fat: New Improved Single Factor Thinking
We're Happy happy Happy With our Fat - or maybe not
"Lean Muscle "- muscle is lean - do you mean lean mass?
Green Tea - good for more than what ails ya - facilitating fat burning
Carbohydrates
What's 100% whole wheat? and what is it vs sprouted wheat? or sprouted anything?
Carbohydrates: the New Fat
Carbs or Protein before Bed? Not what you think
Protein
How much protein - no really - for muscle gain, maintenance
What's a whole protein? and why how should/can we have them?
Optimal Protein Blends - for carnivores and vegetarians alike
A Minute with Mike: BCAA's, Leucine, or Plain Old Whey - does it make a difference?
Nutrient timing *may* make difference - for strength, body comp, muscle fiber...
The Pump: What is it, Does it Work and if so How and for What Kind of Muscle Growth?
Farmed Salmon: Health and Environment Concerns. Dam
Diets
Eating: Rewiring our Instincts for Sure Fire Weight Loss
Habits and Alternatives: one step at a time dieting (within critique of P90x) (including references to Precision Nutrition, Lyle McDonald, M.Beck, and a cast of thousands)
Supplements
Supplement Curmudgeon: Does that DO anything for you?
Is what's on the label really in your supplement?
Creatine, Beta Alanine, Citrulline malate, and more b2d
Dealing with (a wretched) Cold
The Raw and The Cooked of Enzyme Supplementation
Weight Loss & Exercise
More on Exercise without Diet doesn't produce Weight Loss
Exercise doesn't work - without diet - really
Athletic Bodies: which one is you(r desired shape)?
P90X Critique Part 2 0f 3 - WIll you really "get ripped"?
Nutrient Timing
Nutrient timing *may* make difference - for strength/mass development
Minute with Mike (2 ), Post Workout Recovery Window: real or myth?
Approaches to Nutrition
What the Heck is Sustenance? Review of the Z-Health 9S Sustenance
Rewiring Habits - support for lean eating (part of a Critique of P90X )
Set Point Theory is Crap: We are Only What We Eat
Review of the "Science" claims of the Warrior Diet
Human Support is KEY for Good Eating/Diet Success
Resources
Precision Nutrition. The best source to Learn about one's self and food
Georgie Fear's Dig In: The new easy, fast, tasty, satisfying recipe book: DIG IN
Farmed Salmon: Health and Environment Concerns. Dam
Food Inc.: the unbearable lightness of the food industry
Fitness Geek Book Recommendations
Images and Approaches: Real People making Real Changes with Real Support
Athletic Bodies: which one is you(r desired shape)?
Reflection/Critique of P90X review (in Three Parts)
Motivation as Skill: a Functional Definition of same Tweet Follow @begin2dig
Fat:
Respect the Fat: An overview of Fat Burning Goodness
Brown Fat: New Improved Single Factor Thinking
We're Happy happy Happy With our Fat - or maybe not
"Lean Muscle "- muscle is lean - do you mean lean mass?
Green Tea - good for more than what ails ya - facilitating fat burning
Carbohydrates
What's 100% whole wheat? and what is it vs sprouted wheat? or sprouted anything?
Carbohydrates: the New Fat
Carbs or Protein before Bed? Not what you think
Protein
How much protein - no really - for muscle gain, maintenance
i like this piece - cuz i'm not crazy about the conclusions. That mainly protein may well be overdone if you're talking about muscle gain, which is different than using it for diet to feel fuller on less. There's also a difference between protein synthesis and protein absorption. They are not the same. And in particular, why creatine and load may be more important than protein for *gaining* beyond what ya gain just with exercise.
What's a whole protein? and why how should/can we have them?
ever wondered this? especially if you're a vegetarian? how get a whole protein from bread and beans? or what's a super bean as a whole/complete protein?
Optimal Protein Blends - for carnivores and vegetarians alike
Nutrient timing *may* make difference - for strength, body comp, muscle fiber...
The Pump: What is it, Does it Work and if so How and for What Kind of Muscle Growth?
Farmed Salmon: Health and Environment Concerns. Dam
Diets
Eating: Rewiring our Instincts for Sure Fire Weight Loss
Habits and Alternatives: one step at a time dieting (within critique of P90x) (including references to Precision Nutrition, Lyle McDonald, M.Beck, and a cast of thousands)
Supplements
Supplement Curmudgeon: Does that DO anything for you?Is what's on the label really in your supplement?
Creatine, Beta Alanine, Citrulline malate, and more b2d
Dealing with (a wretched) Cold
The Raw and The Cooked of Enzyme Supplementation
Weight Loss & Exercise
More on Exercise without Diet doesn't produce Weight Loss
Exercise doesn't work - without diet - really
Athletic Bodies: which one is you(r desired shape)?
P90X Critique Part 2 0f 3 - WIll you really "get ripped"?
Nutrient Timing
Nutrient timing *may* make difference - for strength/mass development
Minute with Mike (2 ), Post Workout Recovery Window: real or myth?
Approaches to Nutrition
What the Heck is Sustenance? Review of the Z-Health 9S Sustenance
Rewiring Habits - support for lean eating (part of a Critique of P90X )
Set Point Theory is Crap: We are Only What We Eat
Review of the "Science" claims of the Warrior Diet
Human Support is KEY for Good Eating/Diet Success
Resources
Precision Nutrition. The best source to Learn about one's self and food
Georgie Fear's Dig In: The new easy, fast, tasty, satisfying recipe book: DIG IN
Farmed Salmon: Health and Environment Concerns. Dam
Food Inc.: the unbearable lightness of the food industry
Fitness Geek Book Recommendations
Images and Approaches: Real People making Real Changes with Real Support
Athletic Bodies: which one is you(r desired shape)?
Reflection/Critique of P90X review (in Three Parts)
Motivation as Skill: a Functional Definition of same Tweet Follow @begin2dig
Saturday, October 3, 2009
Nutrient timing *may* make difference - for strength, body comp, muscle fiber...
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Could changing when you have a recovery drink have a significant effect on strength, body comp and other performance factors? It may be that simple. If you like your workout routine, but want it to produce better results, you may find that changing one thing has a not insignificant effect. There seems to be significant benefit to strength, muscle fiber, body composition and muscle glycogen uptake based simply on when nutrients are taken around a workout. Likewise this nutrient timing requires no other change to one's diet to have this effect.
A cool thing about this study is that participants were used to doing resistance work; they aren't newbies (as many studies use).
Here's what they had in their drinks:
Strength & Muscle gains What the above breaks down to show is that there was a statistically significant difference (only 5% likelihood that the finding is based on chance) in STRENGTH performance improvements with the group in things like the 1RM. Intriguingly, the cross sectional area of muscle went up (hypertrophy) more than the other group of the fast twitch fibers in particular - the ones uses especially in power/strength work.
Creatine and Hypertrophy. So, nothing too surprising in what the good stuff in the drinks is. If i could redo this study, i'd take out the creatine to study separately, as the consensus there has seemed to be that one can take it anytime to be valuable. That said, the authors here in the discussion suggest that there may be particular benefit to taking creatine around time of exercise.
Body Comp - another interesting finding is that the effect of timing on body comp (bf%, lean mass) was also significant.
Citation:
CRIBB, P., & HAYES, A. (2006). Effects of Supplement Timing and Resistance Exercise on Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 38 (11), 1918-1925 DOI: 10.1249/01.mss.0000233790.08788.3e Tweet Follow @begin2dig
Could changing when you have a recovery drink have a significant effect on strength, body comp and other performance factors? It may be that simple. If you like your workout routine, but want it to produce better results, you may find that changing one thing has a not insignificant effect. There seems to be significant benefit to strength, muscle fiber, body composition and muscle glycogen uptake based simply on when nutrients are taken around a workout. Likewise this nutrient timing requires no other change to one's diet to have this effect.Bottom line: taking Creatine Monohydrate, Protein and Carbs "just before" & "right after" workout is a really cheap win to improving strength, body comp and muscle type improvements. The other group had taken the same fuel in the AM before any other food and late in the PM after anything else so fuel ups were at least 5 hours on either side of a workout.
Effects of supplement timing and resistance exercise on skeletal muscle hypertrophy.
Exercise Metabolism Unit, Center for Ageing, Rehabilitation, Exercise and Sport; and the School of Biomedical Sciences, Victoria University, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
PURPOSE: Some studies report greater muscle hypertrophy during resistance exercise (RE) training from supplement timing (i.e., the strategic consumption of protein and carbohydrate before and/or after each workout). However, no studies have examined whether this strategy provides greater muscle hypertrophy or strength development compared with supplementation at other times during the day. The purpose of this study was to examine the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-wk RE program. METHODS: In a single-blind, randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of two groups; the PRE-POST group consumed a supplement (1 g x kg(-1) body weight) containing protein/creatine/glucose immediately before and after RE. The MOR-EVE group consumed the same dose of the same supplement in the morning and late evening. All assessments were completed the week before and after 10 wk of structured, supervised RE training. Assessments included strength (1RM, three exercises), body composition (DEXA), and vastus lateralis muscle biopsies for determination of muscle fiber type (I, IIa, IIx), cross-sectional area (CSA), contractile protein, creatine (Cr), and glycogen content. RRESULTS: PRE-POST demonstrated a greater (P < 0.05) increase in lean body mass and 1RM strength in two of three assessments. The changes in body composition were supported by a greater (P < 0.05) increase in CSA of the type II fibers and contractile protein content.
CONCLUSION: Supplement timing represents a simple but effective strategy that enhances the adaptations desired from RE-training.
A cool thing about this study is that participants were used to doing resistance work; they aren't newbies (as many studies use).
Here's what they had in their drinks:
All participants were prescribed 1 g of the supplement per kilogram of body weight (1 g-1·kg-1 bw), to be consumed twice on training days only. The supplement contained (per 100 g), 40 g of protein (from whey isolate), 43 g of carbohydrate (glucose), < 0.5 g of fat, and 7 g of CrM and was provided by AST Sport Science (Golden, CO). This dose provided an 80-kg participant with 32 g of protein, 34.4 g of carbohydrate, < 0.4 g of fat, and a 5.6 g of CrM in each serving (a total of 1124 kJ). The chosen supplement dose was based on previously reported intakes of this population (18) and was similar to previous studies that had involved protein (1) or CrM (8) supplementation close to RE. The participants were instructed to maintain their habitual daily diet during the trial.
Strength & Muscle gains What the above breaks down to show is that there was a statistically significant difference (only 5% likelihood that the finding is based on chance) in STRENGTH performance improvements with the group in things like the 1RM. Intriguingly, the cross sectional area of muscle went up (hypertrophy) more than the other group of the fast twitch fibers in particular - the ones uses especially in power/strength work.
Creatine and Hypertrophy. So, nothing too surprising in what the good stuff in the drinks is. If i could redo this study, i'd take out the creatine to study separately, as the consensus there has seemed to be that one can take it anytime to be valuable. That said, the authors here in the discussion suggest that there may be particular benefit to taking creatine around time of exercise.
it could be suggested that supplement timing promotes more efficient Cr accumulation within muscle and, therefore, greater strength gains and muscle hypertrophy during RE training. However, this aspect was not examined directly. Based on the results obtained, further investigations are warranted to examine dose responses and the extent of Cr accumulation during RE, and to fully elucidate the contributions of both CrM and whey protein to chronic adaptations during training.
Body Comp - another interesting finding is that the effect of timing on body comp (bf%, lean mass) was also significant.
A group×time interaction (P <>
Muscle Glycogen. Higher in the Pre/Post group too - and at that 10 weeks after the trial finished. The authors propose an argument for this finding.
Therefore, it could be suggested that PRE-POST supplement timing not only promoted more efficient CrM accumulation within muscle, but that this strategy may have also promoted more efficient muscle glycogen restoration during the RE program. In turn, these benefits may have enabled greater work capacity during subsequent workouts, thus helping to promote greater strength improvements and muscle hypertrophy. Although work capacity was not assessed, the significantly greater hypertrophy responses (in three of three assessments) and 1RM strength improvements (two of three assessments) demonstrated by the PRE-POST group after the program support this theory.Other studies have looked at taking on board fuel close to RE, but the authors of this study claim that the unique thing here is that no one changed their diet: they just added the supplement drink. The authors write:
In conclusion, although there has been a sound theoretical basis for expecting a beneficial effect from supplement timing, this is the first study to clearly demonstrate that this strategy results in greater strength and body composition improvements (i.e., a gain in lean mass and a decrease in body fat percentage) as well as muscle hypertrophy, compared with supplementation at times outside of the workout period. Unlike previous work that has examined chronic adaptations from nutrient consumption close to RE, a significantly greater muscle hypertrophy response from supplement timing was evident at three different levels (i.e., a greater increase in LBM, hypertrophy of the type IIa and IIx fibers, and contractile protein accrual). Additionally, these results were obtained with participants maintaining their normal eating patterns throughout the program. Therefore, we conclude that supplement timing represents a simple but effective strategy to enhance the adaptations that are desired from RE training.This study is from 2006. It may be that other studies since then that i've yet to find qualify these results differently. Likewise, the authors didn't use a total control group - a group that did no extra supplementation at all - it would be interesting to see if that outside RE time supplementation had ANY benefit at all.
That said, it does seem pretty compellingly simple, as the authors suggest, that just by putting pre/post protein/cho/CrM drinks around RE workouts is an Easy Win for supporting strength.
Related Posts
- A minute with mike 1: bcaa, leucine, whey: which when and why?
- A minute with mike 2: post workout recovery window
- nutrition in general: eating is a habit, and change is pain. here's help (inside p90x article)
- free 40+ page overview of approach that uses this nutrient timing stuff (precision nutrition)
Citation:
CRIBB, P., & HAYES, A. (2006). Effects of Supplement Timing and Resistance Exercise on Skeletal Muscle Hypertrophy Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 38 (11), 1918-1925 DOI: 10.1249/01.mss.0000233790.08788.3e Tweet Follow @begin2dig
Monday, July 13, 2009
A Minute with Mike: BCAA's, Leucine, or Plain Old Whey - does it make a difference?
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At the recent Z-Health 9S: Sustenance course, i had the chance to 
sit down with Mike T. Nelson, PhD in Kinesiology candidate and Z-Health Master Trainer about a bunch of topics mythologized in nutrition training.
In this of what we both hope will be only the first of an ongoing series of exchanges, b2d presents A Minute with Mike.
Today's topic, based on a consideration of all the research Mike's been looking at, and it's oh, a lot,, is what's the best protein source in recovery:
Mike's results came as a kinda myth-busting surprise. So without further ado, here's Mike:
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sit down with Mike T. Nelson, PhD in Kinesiology candidate and Z-Health Master Trainer about a bunch of topics mythologized in nutrition training.In this of what we both hope will be only the first of an ongoing series of exchanges, b2d presents A Minute with Mike.
Today's topic, based on a consideration of all the research Mike's been looking at, and it's oh, a lot,, is what's the best protein source in recovery:
- bcaa's
- leucine
- good ol' whey protein
Mike's results came as a kinda myth-busting surprise. So without further ado, here's Mike:
In th next Minute with Mike: recovery window, real, fiction or something in between?
Check out Mike's new site, extremehumanperformance.com
Check out Mike's new site, extremehumanperformance.com
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
Optimal Protein Blends - for carnivores and vegetarians alike
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The following post offers some quick suggestions for tuning your protein types to optimize uptake depending on activity.
Carter Schoffer once explained to me why different kinds of proteins are a good idea, rather than using the usual Whey Protein Isolate by whatever company. The reason that has a lot to do with it (if i'm reflecting this correctly) is absorption rate matching to task.
After a hard training session when the muscles are crying out for amino acids, a fast digesting protein is a good idea. For vegans, gemma or pea protein seems to have the best profile. For dairy-ok folks, hydrolyzed whey has the best profile - better than isolate.
For protein during the day and over night, when you want to slow down the absorption rate, and have a more steady state feed of protein happening, slower absorbing proteins.
For vegans, hemp protein is a slow digesting source. Here's a resource comparing different protein types, too. (if that link goes awry, here's another).
For dairy-ok folks looking for anytime protein, casein/milk blends are a good idea. Especially if you follow Precision Nutrition's of protein and greens with every feeding, and need the convenience of say a Super Shake during the day, this second protein variant is great to have.
You can shop for protein powders that pre tin these particular blends. Or you can custom mix the blends you want at trueprotein.com (there's also a trueprotein.ca). There are several advantages to the TP approach. One of them is experimentation: you can order a pound of any kind of blend you'd like or any flavouring you'd like and not be stuck with a ton of it.
For instance, Luke Neilsen recommends this blend for a great anytime protein.
The price works out to 1-3 dollars a pound LESS than Metabolic drive, Evopro by Cytosport, or Propeptide.
Now if you do want to use pre-packed blend, i'd recommend bulknutrition.com (aka 1fast400.com) - they have excellent prices, good shipping, and frequent 10% off offers for returning customers. They're also very fast at responding to customer queries.
For the blends and customer service, TP is hard to beat. They also do some bulk supplements as well, so it's worth comparing prices regularly between bulknutrition.com and TP.
If you do order from trueprotein, you're welcome to use my discount code as well for 5% off your next order. The code is MCS110 - you'll enter it at the end of the order cycle. Tweet Follow @begin2dig
Carter Schoffer once explained to me why different kinds of proteins are a good idea, rather than using the usual Whey Protein Isolate by whatever company. The reason that has a lot to do with it (if i'm reflecting this correctly) is absorption rate matching to task.
After a hard training session when the muscles are crying out for amino acids, a fast digesting protein is a good idea. For vegans, gemma or pea protein seems to have the best profile. For dairy-ok folks, hydrolyzed whey has the best profile - better than isolate.
For protein during the day and over night, when you want to slow down the absorption rate, and have a more steady state feed of protein happening, slower absorbing proteins.
For vegans, hemp protein is a slow digesting source. Here's a resource comparing different protein types, too. (if that link goes awry, here's another).
For dairy-ok folks looking for anytime protein, casein/milk blends are a good idea. Especially if you follow Precision Nutrition's of protein and greens with every feeding, and need the convenience of say a Super Shake during the day, this second protein variant is great to have.
You can shop for protein powders that pre tin these particular blends. Or you can custom mix the blends you want at trueprotein.com (there's also a trueprotein.ca). There are several advantages to the TP approach. One of them is experimentation: you can order a pound of any kind of blend you'd like or any flavouring you'd like and not be stuck with a ton of it.For instance, Luke Neilsen recommends this blend for a great anytime protein.
Milk Protein Isolate - 30%It's recommended to include the aminogen protease and i prefer the BSL flavouring system but there again you can use any flavour/sweetener combo you'd like.
Micellar Casein - 30%
Whey Protein Isolate Cold-Filtration -40%
The price works out to 1-3 dollars a pound LESS than Metabolic drive, Evopro by Cytosport, or Propeptide.
Now if you do want to use pre-packed blend, i'd recommend bulknutrition.com (aka 1fast400.com) - they have excellent prices, good shipping, and frequent 10% off offers for returning customers. They're also very fast at responding to customer queries.
For the blends and customer service, TP is hard to beat. They also do some bulk supplements as well, so it's worth comparing prices regularly between bulknutrition.com and TP.
If you do order from trueprotein, you're welcome to use my discount code as well for 5% off your next order. The code is MCS110 - you'll enter it at the end of the order cycle. Tweet Follow @begin2dig
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