Showing posts with label food. Show all posts
Showing posts with label food. Show all posts
Friday, February 24, 2017
PLEASE - would you Help Me Help You Tune In Dial Up Shift Gears for your WELLTH SUCCESS
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How can i Help - i’m asking this all the time when engaging with folks who share they’re a bit tired or stressed, or they’re keen to start getting fit, i really want to help! i can HELP SO MUCH - trust me…). I mean, i KNOW - it’s my research ok - that we’re complex and that we can defeat our best plans if we try one practice and expect great results, and we don’t get them, because the other bits of our complexity don’t get tuned to support the new practice.
Like if you start lifting, how make it possible to make sure your rest and food and partying align with that new thing so you feel great rather than totally fatigued? so you burn fat rather than actually start to store more of it? and then feel frustrated because what you believe is supposed to work - stops working.
It’s a personal challenge to let folks have their process but also offer - in a trustful way - that i’m here if you’d like some feedback. I get a little eager.
Like just last night, i asked on twitter for pete’s sake when someone just said they’d successfully lifted some heavy stuff i aks - so what is your aspiration in doing this new thing?
And perhaps they’ll share what they hope to achieve - like they’re now lifting weights and they say it’s cuz they want to get leaner. Like lose weight really.
And i’m trying really hard not to jump up and down and go (in 145 characters)
Too intense?
And see i KNOW that it doesn’t matter about food, right away - moving is great. What's importnat is beginning to build self- efficacy. And hopefully not hurting yourself.
What i’m really trying to do is just flag up - well, you can start here if that sounds great, but if you want to have a chat about this WHOLE THING - rather than try to hack this space and DIY it, and maybe get it right; maybe not, a wee conversation could give you view of the horizon you could use to be aware of some more of the factors you could play with as well to get to your goals FASTER and having more FUN doing it and less risk of injury or frustration.
How say that? Or not? should i not try?
And ok the other thing is - how build trust? This person may never catch up with me about this - why should they? they don’t know me - but maybe they’ll have this conversation with someone else who has a wholistic view.
or not.
Oh it’s hard to shut up shut up shut up and not say oh wow can we talk about this? because i really really like to hear what people do, how they come to their decisions about what they’re doing, and how they support this.
And i like to say “you won’t believe how this really tiny thing can make this HUGE difference? want to know more? How you can test it for yourself?" Cus sometimes these little conversations help figure out that there may be some beliefs that aren’t helpful that are interupting making real gains towards the aspiration.
For instane, a colleague shared about her running, and i offered a tip about pacing she thought was really useful (practicing offer a little and shut up) so when i saw her again, we talked about her runs over the winter - how she wasn’t really cuz it’s wet and yucky out so she’s running up and down her one set of stairs at home. Fantastic. I ask if she’d like to look at something to complement that stair practice if she doesn’t feel like running. She says yes, sure (not sure if she’s just being polite).
So i ask has she ever thought about lifting heavy
stuff (i’m actually thinking about the power of swinging a kettlebell) - and she tells me, no she doesn’t want to bulk up. AND THERE IT IS: the huge belief about weights that keep women from protecting ourselves from osteoporosis. And that’s just the kind of belief so important to explore!
Because guess what? that lack of lifting heavy stuff, means lack of muscle, means lack of stress on the bones from having to support the muscle that is pulling load, means lack of need to have bone because we’re use it or lose it systems, means less tissue laid down, means a future likelihood of osteoporosis. Why don’t guys have as much incidence of osteoporosis? more muscle mass, more stress on bones, more need therefore to have bone, so more bone tissue, more resilience. Jeeze eh?
And as for bulky? What i wouldn’t give for some biceptual bulk! Ha. SO i share as well, it is SO SO hard for women to build mass.
I actually finally say “do i look bulky?” NO! comes the reply Exactly AND I”m REALLY WORKING IT! (See? small white gal - lifts heavy - looks well not like x-fit champion to be sure).
Anyway, to get back to my point about this personal challenge.
I LOVE to talk with folks about how to help them TUNE IN what they’re already doing right now to better support their aspirations. To help them get their foot off the brake if it’s there - if they don’t even know or suspect their foot is on the break while hitting the gas. Or maybe how to shift gears to really pick up momentum - because things are revving really high but things aren’t changing. That ever happen? OR folks just don’t know things they’re doing could feel better, easier...
My challenge is i’d love to develop a way to engage with folks so that i could offer this kind of tune up without overwhelming that person and so it invites trust to explore - not making that person feel defensive - open the possiblity that’s inviting. That i’m keen to hear rather than prescribe; that anything i offer is testable to see how it works etc etc.
So if you connect with me and health or anything about performance comes up - first let me say so sorry if i get a little carried away - i’m working on it to pull back.
And second: as i’ve written about in detail before you really are doing everything you need to be doing for health - you move, you eat, you sleep, you talk with others, you seek to learn new things - all fantastic. What you may find helpful is some insight into how to tune what you’re doign already on those fundamentals to get to that resonant frequency with with these activities where they really just hum. When that dialing in occurs, you can build that resiliane, leanness, fitness, as effeciently and joyfully as possible.
So please pardon me - i’d love to learn about your health aspirations and if i can help you find your path more quickly more joy less chance of injury - at bottom, on my side, this is likely a joyful path for making contact with another human. Some people cook for others; i coach and research and design for health and wellbeing (“wellth”). Thanks for your patience.
Thanks for listening. Have a great fitness practice thing today, whatever you're doing. And heh - door's open...literally
Tweet Follow @begin2dig
Like if you start lifting, how make it possible to make sure your rest and food and partying align with that new thing so you feel great rather than totally fatigued? so you burn fat rather than actually start to store more of it? and then feel frustrated because what you believe is supposed to work - stops working.It’s a personal challenge to let folks have their process but also offer - in a trustful way - that i’m here if you’d like some feedback. I get a little eager.
Like just last night, i asked on twitter for pete’s sake when someone just said they’d successfully lifted some heavy stuff i aks - so what is your aspiration in doing this new thing?
And perhaps they’ll share what they hope to achieve - like they’re now lifting weights and they say it’s cuz they want to get leaner. Like lose weight really.
And i’m trying really hard not to jump up and down and go (in 145 characters)that’s so great that’s super. Heh, what about your diet? You know you can’t outrun a donut, right? not that you’re eating donuts, but i mean working out is great, you’ll get stronger, help your bones all good - but if you really want to kill the fat, if that’s your aspiration, and you’re doing the strong thing, it’s really diet not exercise that’s the prime mover there - i mean do you want to dial that in. And heh, do you know how to do that? what are you doing? i know how to do that. You don’t really know me, but i’m insured, i’m certified, i help people, heh just talk with me, promise this is going to be great. C’mon - maybe what you’re doing is perfect, but maybe just a little tweak could make it exponentially better - like totally - you’ll be so amazed. Really: you’ll be able to test it yourself. It’s awesome.
Too intense?
And see i KNOW that it doesn’t matter about food, right away - moving is great. What's importnat is beginning to build self- efficacy. And hopefully not hurting yourself.
What i’m really trying to do is just flag up - well, you can start here if that sounds great, but if you want to have a chat about this WHOLE THING - rather than try to hack this space and DIY it, and maybe get it right; maybe not, a wee conversation could give you view of the horizon you could use to be aware of some more of the factors you could play with as well to get to your goals FASTER and having more FUN doing it and less risk of injury or frustration.
How say that? Or not? should i not try?
And ok the other thing is - how build trust? This person may never catch up with me about this - why should they? they don’t know me - but maybe they’ll have this conversation with someone else who has a wholistic view.
or not.
Oh it’s hard to shut up shut up shut up and not say oh wow can we talk about this? because i really really like to hear what people do, how they come to their decisions about what they’re doing, and how they support this.
And i like to say “you won’t believe how this really tiny thing can make this HUGE difference? want to know more? How you can test it for yourself?" Cus sometimes these little conversations help figure out that there may be some beliefs that aren’t helpful that are interupting making real gains towards the aspiration.
For instane, a colleague shared about her running, and i offered a tip about pacing she thought was really useful (practicing offer a little and shut up) so when i saw her again, we talked about her runs over the winter - how she wasn’t really cuz it’s wet and yucky out so she’s running up and down her one set of stairs at home. Fantastic. I ask if she’d like to look at something to complement that stair practice if she doesn’t feel like running. She says yes, sure (not sure if she’s just being polite).So i ask has she ever thought about lifting heavy
stuff (i’m actually thinking about the power of swinging a kettlebell) - and she tells me, no she doesn’t want to bulk up. AND THERE IT IS: the huge belief about weights that keep women from protecting ourselves from osteoporosis. And that’s just the kind of belief so important to explore!
Because guess what? that lack of lifting heavy stuff, means lack of muscle, means lack of stress on the bones from having to support the muscle that is pulling load, means lack of need to have bone because we’re use it or lose it systems, means less tissue laid down, means a future likelihood of osteoporosis. Why don’t guys have as much incidence of osteoporosis? more muscle mass, more stress on bones, more need therefore to have bone, so more bone tissue, more resilience. Jeeze eh?
And as for bulky? What i wouldn’t give for some biceptual bulk! Ha. SO i share as well, it is SO SO hard for women to build mass.
 |
| not me |
Anyway, to get back to my point about this personal challenge.
I LOVE to talk with folks about how to help them TUNE IN what they’re already doing right now to better support their aspirations. To help them get their foot off the brake if it’s there - if they don’t even know or suspect their foot is on the break while hitting the gas. Or maybe how to shift gears to really pick up momentum - because things are revving really high but things aren’t changing. That ever happen? OR folks just don’t know things they’re doing could feel better, easier...
My challenge is i’d love to develop a way to engage with folks so that i could offer this kind of tune up without overwhelming that person and so it invites trust to explore - not making that person feel defensive - open the possiblity that’s inviting. That i’m keen to hear rather than prescribe; that anything i offer is testable to see how it works etc etc.
So if you connect with me and health or anything about performance comes up - first let me say so sorry if i get a little carried away - i’m working on it to pull back.
And second: as i’ve written about in detail before you really are doing everything you need to be doing for health - you move, you eat, you sleep, you talk with others, you seek to learn new things - all fantastic. What you may find helpful is some insight into how to tune what you’re doign already on those fundamentals to get to that resonant frequency with with these activities where they really just hum. When that dialing in occurs, you can build that resiliane, leanness, fitness, as effeciently and joyfully as possible.
So please pardon me - i’d love to learn about your health aspirations and if i can help you find your path more quickly more joy less chance of injury - at bottom, on my side, this is likely a joyful path for making contact with another human. Some people cook for others; i coach and research and design for health and wellbeing (“wellth”). Thanks for your patience.
Thanks for listening. Have a great fitness practice thing today, whatever you're doing. And heh - door's open...literally
Tweet Follow @begin2dig
PDF
Sunday, February 19, 2017
Vegetarians are Sissies.
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Vegetarians are sissies. This thought occured to me after having been vegetarian for - oh a really long time (decade+) then going back to omnivore - and more recently (past year-ish) exploring what i'm calling "opportunistic veganism" That is: i optimise for not eating meat, includeing dairy especially when i’m eating away from home. It's kinda fun.
It's opportunistic because i'm looking for opportunities to practice veganism. And the biggest, easiest win consistently and especially at home is: getting rid of dairy. Black coffee; black tea. Artisan breads.
I don't know why more folks don't start exploring heading towards a Plant eating regimine simply by first skipping out animal outputs rather than the animals themselves. Surely there's a name for this inverted vegetarianism?
Yes, any egress from an animal can be readily skipped. I haven't touched dairy since i started on this - and i haven't missed it. Milky tea - once a fave has been replaced with Black tea. Cheese as garnish has been replaced by cashews ground up with nutritional yeast (a combo known as vegan crack - and with good cause) - it's like parmesan. Yogurt? who needs it? I've got: water kefir, fermented oatmeal, saurkraut, home made red wine vinegar, sourdough.
alternatives to yogurt abound - and are cheaper and producable at home - like this saurkraut.
Which brings us to why vegetarians are sissies. Most vegetarians -not all but most - are saying they're not ok with animal slaughter (or aesphixiation). That's nice. So why are they ok with well, how describe it? animal slavery?
Great you're not eating the hamburger - but that burger is just the end point of about 7 milk cows - or more - and that's not even healthy in terms of tracing say e-coli contamination. But i digress: point is, vegetarian sissies, after a life time behind bars - of those milking stalls - those poor tired girls are retired to macdonalds.
And those chickens you're not eating? That's limiting cruelty of factory framing is it?
What makes eggs ok? Are they all from free range hens? No? Yes? Are you sure those free range hens are really ranging freely? Does that restriction of conviction include the eggs in all the processed foods you may be having too?
And let’s remember that for every female chick that is forced to squat in a barn to lay eggs, the male chicks are asphyxiated to go into cat food. For your pet. Way to go.
We won't even talk about all the itty bitty baby sheep that give their lives for parmesan cheese.
Hence the morality of vegetarianism - for those that claim that rationale rather than "i don't like the taste of meat" now kinda escapes me: once you look at the infrastruture that enables the animal outputs (ie dairy) to be produced/sold, it feels like vegetarianism on "moral and ethical grounds" is neither: it's hypocracy isn't it?
And speaking of that dairy infrastructure, what's easier to do? learn to skip the milk and like black coffee or give up bacon? You’ll crow about giving up steak but not cake?
Worried about less calcium if you skip milk in coffee? Have some kale. Or broccoli. Get a double benefit of all the nutrients in the veg -including calcium - and fewer calories. And if you’re trying to be a little more resilient, learning how to do without what seems stupidly essential, find alternatives - means you’re just a little more versatile - a little less a slave to your tastes.
In terms of energy conservation and feeding the planet: What if all the demand for dairy dried up. First milk, then eggs then cheese. Imagine if all that acid whey poured off as waste in the making of greek yogurt - just dried up - cuz we weren't buying it anymore.
And then even baking started to change to find amazing egg and milk alternatives (they're there).
So - i'm saying this - especially to vegetarians: why not experiment with finding your opportunisitic vegan by starting with inverting the whole vegetarian thing. Start your un-animal quest by Taking a pass on the energy and un-ethics of dairy.
Just see how that goes - you don't have to be a fascist about it. It's just, let's get real: vegetarianism is not really protecting animals. As we've seen, dairy is the pre and post process of meat practices. So if you’re skipping meat on ethical grounds, what are your ethics for dairy?
For example: at a restaurant if there are no pre-fabricated mains on the menu that suit, i can ask if the chef will put together some ingredients that are on the menu: beans & greens make the scene.
This approach works really well at most hotels for breakfast-included buffet scenarios too: the staff can use the ingredients for omlettes to create something good. Even Brit full english buffets often have tomatoes and mushrooms, and the fruit area will have dark berries.
On the go, i also travel with a Dose Locker full of brown rice protein powder and Enerex Greens powder: nutrition anywhere anytime. Worst comes to Worst, oh gosh i can skip a full meal. I can do some hunger and be ok with that. OR i can eat the fish. Or the cow. Remember: i'm making a choice. I'm an opportunistic vegan - creating vegan opportunities all the time, as much as possible/desireable. It's fun. That's the thing: i'm taking control of my nutrition.
TO practice, why not go dairy-free? Up your veg instead. You can still get all those lucious fats that dairy offers and even more nutrients and fiber just by upping say avacados. Skipping dairy is also an easy way to start effortlessly reducing intake of excess calories if you’re trying to lean out but want to keep up your nutrition.
And heck: i am not vegan-pure; i'm opportunistic.
Sometimes i don't ask exactly what's in that oatmeal chocolate chip raisin cookie...
ANYWAY
Why not use that privilege to gain some skills on how to be more resilient?
Learning to eat less animal and animal related products - learning how to go without from time to time intelligently - is a great way to become more resilient. When we don’t HAVE to do something is a great time to learn HOW to do something so we’re not limited by our current constrained preferences.
Cutting dairy is a great way to start such an exploration, because for most of us, that dairy is just a bonus not an essential nutrient anyway - loads of other foods offer similar advantages, from fats to vitamins.
After you get un-dairy under control (up those greens and avocados and anything dark really) - you can try being an opportunistic vegan. You’ll be smarter about food, more reslient, and have more fun no longer being held captive by the buffet, but getting better food too, guaranteed.
Update: Feb 26 - i forgot that i posted this about male chicks back in 2010 - how time flies: The Evil Vegetarian and Her Eggs - with asphxiation video can you believe it! Tweet Follow @begin2dig
It's opportunistic because i'm looking for opportunities to practice veganism. And the biggest, easiest win consistently and especially at home is: getting rid of dairy. Black coffee; black tea. Artisan breads.
I don't know why more folks don't start exploring heading towards a Plant eating regimine simply by first skipping out animal outputs rather than the animals themselves. Surely there's a name for this inverted vegetarianism?
Yes, any egress from an animal can be readily skipped. I haven't touched dairy since i started on this - and i haven't missed it. Milky tea - once a fave has been replaced with Black tea. Cheese as garnish has been replaced by cashews ground up with nutritional yeast (a combo known as vegan crack - and with good cause) - it's like parmesan. Yogurt? who needs it? I've got: water kefir, fermented oatmeal, saurkraut, home made red wine vinegar, sourdough.
alternatives to yogurt abound - and are cheaper and producable at home - like this saurkraut.
 | ||
| beyond home made saurkraut, there's kombucha, water kefir, red wine vinegar, soaked/fermeted oats. who needs yogurt? |
Which brings us to why vegetarians are sissies. Most vegetarians -not all but most - are saying they're not ok with animal slaughter (or aesphixiation). That's nice. So why are they ok with well, how describe it? animal slavery?
Great you're not eating the hamburger - but that burger is just the end point of about 7 milk cows - or more - and that's not even healthy in terms of tracing say e-coli contamination. But i digress: point is, vegetarian sissies, after a life time behind bars - of those milking stalls - those poor tired girls are retired to macdonalds.
And those chickens you're not eating? That's limiting cruelty of factory framing is it?
What makes eggs ok? Are they all from free range hens? No? Yes? Are you sure those free range hens are really ranging freely? Does that restriction of conviction include the eggs in all the processed foods you may be having too?
 |
| THis barn apparently qualifies as "free range" |
And let’s remember that for every female chick that is forced to squat in a barn to lay eggs, the male chicks are asphyxiated to go into cat food. For your pet. Way to go.
We won't even talk about all the itty bitty baby sheep that give their lives for parmesan cheese.
Hence the morality of vegetarianism - for those that claim that rationale rather than "i don't like the taste of meat" now kinda escapes me: once you look at the infrastruture that enables the animal outputs (ie dairy) to be produced/sold, it feels like vegetarianism on "moral and ethical grounds" is neither: it's hypocracy isn't it?
And speaking of that dairy infrastructure, what's easier to do? learn to skip the milk and like black coffee or give up bacon? You’ll crow about giving up steak but not cake?
Once in awhile: skip dairy
To all the non vegetarians out there who want to explore less animal in your diets, i say good for you. Why not start easy and with great health benefits: skip dairy first - it’s more ubiquitous in your daily life but can be easier to eliminate, especially if you want to go higher nutrient for a leaner fitter you.Worried about less calcium if you skip milk in coffee? Have some kale. Or broccoli. Get a double benefit of all the nutrients in the veg -including calcium - and fewer calories. And if you’re trying to be a little more resilient, learning how to do without what seems stupidly essential, find alternatives - means you’re just a little more versatile - a little less a slave to your tastes.
In terms of energy conservation and feeding the planet: What if all the demand for dairy dried up. First milk, then eggs then cheese. Imagine if all that acid whey poured off as waste in the making of greek yogurt - just dried up - cuz we weren't buying it anymore.
And then even baking started to change to find amazing egg and milk alternatives (they're there).
So - i'm saying this - especially to vegetarians: why not experiment with finding your opportunisitic vegan by starting with inverting the whole vegetarian thing. Start your un-animal quest by Taking a pass on the energy and un-ethics of dairy.
Just see how that goes - you don't have to be a fascist about it. It's just, let's get real: vegetarianism is not really protecting animals. As we've seen, dairy is the pre and post process of meat practices. So if you’re skipping meat on ethical grounds, what are your ethics for dairy?
The Opportunistic Veganism Advantage: Better Wholer Food especially on the road
No one says you have to go Vegan full on all the time. A fantastic way to explore opportunistic veganism is to do it away from home. Here’s a few tips on how.Practice on the Go
Folks who ask me (usually over dinner) about not consuming animal have heard me say if survival ever comes to a choice between me or the cow, the cow is going down. But i feel i'm put in that position less and less, or my opportunistic practice means i've learned how to dance that situation less and less.For example: at a restaurant if there are no pre-fabricated mains on the menu that suit, i can ask if the chef will put together some ingredients that are on the menu: beans & greens make the scene.
This approach works really well at most hotels for breakfast-included buffet scenarios too: the staff can use the ingredients for omlettes to create something good. Even Brit full english buffets often have tomatoes and mushrooms, and the fruit area will have dark berries.
On the go, i also travel with a Dose Locker full of brown rice protein powder and Enerex Greens powder: nutrition anywhere anytime. Worst comes to Worst, oh gosh i can skip a full meal. I can do some hunger and be ok with that. OR i can eat the fish. Or the cow. Remember: i'm making a choice. I'm an opportunistic vegan - creating vegan opportunities all the time, as much as possible/desireable. It's fun. That's the thing: i'm taking control of my nutrition.
Optomizing Vegan Meals at Events
A quick tip: at various events when asking for dietary requirements "vegan” can quickly get translated as lots of pasta. To avoid this starch fest, you can add "gluten free” too and even add “please add lots of dark greens like spinach, broccoli” Such meals can still be epic fails, but often my special meal turns out to be tastier than the chicken or beef entree. I also usually get more whole foods when everyone else is getting a lot of white bread and mystery meat. Try it yourself: see what happens.Optimizing Air Plane Food
On planes? If available, try the asian vegetarian option or similar before you go on your flight for your "special meal" - or bring your dose locker. Or consider fasting: which helps with jet lag (at least in mice).Pretend to be Vegan Once in Awhile
Go ahead: pretend to be a vegan and see what license that gives you to EAT BETTER FOOD OUT - especially when restaurants don't know what to do and they ask you what would that include? Fantastic!TO practice, why not go dairy-free? Up your veg instead. You can still get all those lucious fats that dairy offers and even more nutrients and fiber just by upping say avacados. Skipping dairy is also an easy way to start effortlessly reducing intake of excess calories if you’re trying to lean out but want to keep up your nutrition.
And heck: i am not vegan-pure; i'm opportunistic.
Sometimes i don't ask exactly what's in that oatmeal chocolate chip raisin cookie...
ANYWAY
Takeaways
- vegetarians are sissies (or (neo)liberal humanists). most of the veggies i speak with have rationalised their double standards to say they’re ok with them. That it’s just too much to try to go all the way. To which i offer: INVERT YOUR PRACTICE FROM TIME TO TIME try switching it up from time to time - learn the skills to skip/replace the dairy nutrients from other sources and confront the animal by having it on your plate. own up. If not why not?
- ALL OF US try exploring going animal-less by less animal outputs. Just see what your paleo or regular life would be like if you pulled back on the animal stuff by cutting out animal outputs. Start there. Get some skills. Learn what the “intead of Dairy try X for more nutrients” Use the un-dairy as a way to (a) get healthier (b) learn more about how you and food connect to feel better.
- have fun: be an opportunistic vegan more of the time to eat better when out - and those opportunities may become more and more frequent. Start with the out of the house; see what habits trickle to the back home.
Coda: We are so Privileged - let's practice options
if we can dance in these meat or not meat choices, we're all extremely lucky and privileged.Why not use that privilege to gain some skills on how to be more resilient?
Learning to eat less animal and animal related products - learning how to go without from time to time intelligently - is a great way to become more resilient. When we don’t HAVE to do something is a great time to learn HOW to do something so we’re not limited by our current constrained preferences.
Cutting dairy is a great way to start such an exploration, because for most of us, that dairy is just a bonus not an essential nutrient anyway - loads of other foods offer similar advantages, from fats to vitamins.
After you get un-dairy under control (up those greens and avocados and anything dark really) - you can try being an opportunistic vegan. You’ll be smarter about food, more reslient, and have more fun no longer being held captive by the buffet, but getting better food too, guaranteed.
Update: Feb 26 - i forgot that i posted this about male chicks back in 2010 - how time flies: The Evil Vegetarian and Her Eggs - with asphxiation video can you believe it! Tweet Follow @begin2dig
Friday, August 20, 2010
Cocoa drink reduces DOMS. Really? Well, Maybe...
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What if cocoa in a drink of protein and carbs could mitigate DOMS - delayed onset muscle soreness? This is what researchers in a newly published Aug 2010 study have explored. And thank goodness, since most of us have struggled with DOMS at one time or another - new routine and next day or next few days our muscles pay for it. We walk like cowboys coming off a long jaunt in the saddle. Could Cocoa with your recovery beverage of choice be the winner? Let's remember, there are very few approaches that have been shown to help reduce the signs of DOMS - those are detailed in this 2parter here - and as Mike T Nelson comments how we measure DOMS is pretty important when making claims about what is actually reduced in the DOMS experience. Just to recap
Now in a way, there have been a couple kinda similar studies: one that looked at chocolate milk vs something like cytomax (all carbs) and something like endurox (4:1 carb to protein) for recovery, not DOMS. In that study chocolate milk was shown to be as good as a carb beverage and better in a *certain test condition* than protein + carbs well all of us cheer that low-fat chocolate milk option. Except for the tons of folks for whom milk is not a happy thing, from lactose intolerance to immune responses with dairy. Intriguingly various dairy interests supported the research.
Just The Cocoa Facts, Sir. The question has been bound to come up well, what if we ditch the dairy and just look at the chocolate bit, or in this case, the cocoa bit? Especially if this time the research is supported not by a dairy but a chocolate company. Hershies in this case. The researchers who did the reesarch also decided not to look at the big picture of recovery but to focus on DOMS reduction. Why? Because, they argue, we seem to see free-radical release go up conincident with the muscle damage of exercise, so perhaps, putting an anti-oxidant like cocoa into the system may help mitigate those effects and possibly reduce the DOMS experience. Interesting. And there's no small challenge they say in trying to measure anti-oxidant effect:
Starting from Scratch. So thar ya go: the researchers will put together their own drink and compare it with water for effect on DOMS. They are going to use TWO of the four markers for DOMS described above: the biomarkers like CK and LEFS - Lower Extremity Functional Sacle. In LEFS, participants report on a scale of 0-4 the perceived difficulty of carrying out a physical task (actual survey here, pdf). So one biological test and one subjective scoring test. It is SUCH a drag that DOMS tests are not standardized! And asking someone to reflect *about* how they'd find getting out of a car if they haven't gotten out of a car, for instance, is yup pretty durn subjective. Interesting, but subjective when there are measures like ROM and force production also available, and even perceived soreness from pressure.
Findings about Cocoa in Particular? That aside, what did the authors find? Not too much. The drink had no effect on the biomarkers of damage. So they didn't mitigate its biological effects. The authors think however that their use of LEFS rather than the usual in DOMS studies VAS is a step up because LEFS asks about daily activities rather than just how a poke feels. And as to their results with LEFS checked at 24 and 48 hour intervals?
Here's personally where i'd actually like to see the raw data just to confirm that the direction of change for the non-drink group WAS that their scores went down (got worse) rather than up. We have to trust the authors' reporting. And i hate that.
The authors also spend considerable time speculating over why their form of cocoa rather than dutched may be a better use of cocoa to what's in chocolate milk
Concludium
This is why science is so cool: after an entire paper of data, experimental set up, discussion, yada yada yada, this is what we get
Related Work. Interestingly, a previous study by Green and company that states rather categorically in its title that Carb or Carb/Pro drinks have no effect on DOMS is set aside by the present researchers. They suggest that really, Green's study didn't actually elicit anything with which to have a response to mitigate:
So all the more reason for the the authors to have studied a similar drink without the cocoa, rather than water, or along with water, they would have a stronger basis to assert that it's their anti-oxidant/flavonoid cocoa that's the Special Sauce for toning down DOMS. So why mightn't the authors have done something so obvious? I'd speculate something like the following.
The Gritty Realities of Reseasrch on a Shoe string - or Little Hershies Kiss
When one is designing a study, Saul Greenberg once suggested an heuristic to me about research i live by: think about the optimal outcomes of the study proposed. What will the best results be? Is that optimal outcome significant? If the authors of this paper had run that exercise what would they have said: the BEST we will be able to say if our results have an effect is that we will (a) see a difference in biomarkers and (b) see a difference in perceived soreness. And givent that, what will be be able to say about cocoa? Nothing. The best we will be able to say is that cocoa was in the mix and maybe it contributed to decreased DOMS, so best case: it's worth doing the next study to isolate this out.
Why not do the full study the first time? It would take either longer or would take more participants. There are costs to that. So, given that the authors didn't see any A but they did get some B which is sufficient to say "maybe" cocoa plays a role, i hope Hershies is sufficiently keyed up by this "maybe" to fund the next study that would compare the two formulations. Which will be the longer or bigger trial anyway. That could have been done from the start. But maybe Hershies said "what can you do with X dollars? if we like what you do maybe we'll give you X*y" - and so there we are. Maybe. I speculate wildly.
Well what can i tell ya? What can i possibly say?
All we do know from the data is that taking the drink before exercise rather than after exercise had no real effect on DOMS; taking the drink afterwards, the authors suggest based on their 24-48 hours DOMS increasing, shows it does.
So maybe maybe something in the composition and timing of the beverage that helped. What bit is a rather open question. One might say ah yes but there are other studies comparing say c.milk with carb/protein and the c.milk did better so it must be the C for Chocolate? Maybe. Maybe maybe and more maybe.
Might be a fun personal experiment: next time a new routine is in the offing, blend in those whole cacao beens and go nuts! you may even feel better for the next 24-48 hours. It's chocolate! how could it hurt?
Citations
Related
What if cocoa in a drink of protein and carbs could mitigate DOMS - delayed onset muscle soreness? This is what researchers in a newly published Aug 2010 study have explored. And thank goodness, since most of us have struggled with DOMS at one time or another - new routine and next day or next few days our muscles pay for it. We walk like cowboys coming off a long jaunt in the saddle. Could Cocoa with your recovery beverage of choice be the winner? Let's remember, there are very few approaches that have been shown to help reduce the signs of DOMS - those are detailed in this 2parter here - and as Mike T Nelson comments how we measure DOMS is pretty important when making claims about what is actually reduced in the DOMS experience. Just to recapLet's review what's measured in assessing DOMS in the literature.
Study Designing: So if one were to see if cocoa were effective how would we do it? Normally in an experimental condition, there's the thing being tested - in this case cocoa - and then there's a control - like water to see what happens without any intervention - and sometimes - in fact often - there's an alternative protocol, so you can see not just if the thing you're interested in has an effect but if it's the same or better than some usual standard - like a carb or protein+carb drink.Caveat Emptor
- what's in the blood: usually there are markers in the blood like creatine kinase and LDH - these are markers of muscle damage - we may have the same CK levels and have very different responses to soreness
- then there's the subjective measures of soreness themselves using rating scales.
- then there's the more objective bits: Range of motion and force production.
B2D buddie Mike T. Nelson of extremehumanperformance.com asks the question: is the experience of soreness directly correlated to a drop in performance? Mike in conversation makes the point that pain perception being a brain thing is going to be pretty individual. So how DOMS success is measured is something to bare in mind when looking at the studies following that claim to be effective against DOMS - are we talking DOMS pain reduction (always nice) or performance in a DOMS state?
Now in a way, there have been a couple kinda similar studies: one that looked at chocolate milk vs something like cytomax (all carbs) and something like endurox (4:1 carb to protein) for recovery, not DOMS. In that study chocolate milk was shown to be as good as a carb beverage and better in a *certain test condition* than protein + carbs well all of us cheer that low-fat chocolate milk option. Except for the tons of folks for whom milk is not a happy thing, from lactose intolerance to immune responses with dairy. Intriguingly various dairy interests supported the research. Just The Cocoa Facts, Sir. The question has been bound to come up well, what if we ditch the dairy and just look at the chocolate bit, or in this case, the cocoa bit? Especially if this time the research is supported not by a dairy but a chocolate company. Hershies in this case. The researchers who did the reesarch also decided not to look at the big picture of recovery but to focus on DOMS reduction. Why? Because, they argue, we seem to see free-radical release go up conincident with the muscle damage of exercise, so perhaps, putting an anti-oxidant like cocoa into the system may help mitigate those effects and possibly reduce the DOMS experience. Interesting. And there's no small challenge they say in trying to measure anti-oxidant effect:
Although various experiments have been conducted to investigate the effect of antioxidant dietary supplementation on biomarkers of skeletal muscle damage and oxidative stress, the results are often equivocal and difficult to compare because of considerable variations in sampled populations and exercise protocols (18). Moreover, the practical application of antioxidant supplementation research studies has been considerably limited because of an overwhelming failure for measuring and reporting functional indices of exercise-induced muscle damage such as soreness (18). Therefore, the purpose of this pragmatic experiment was twofold: first to investigate the overall effectiveness of a welldefined custom manufactured cocoa-based protein and carbohydrate prototype drink on skeletal muscle cell damage and inflammatory biomarkers and perceived soreness associated with exhaustive exercise and secondly to assess if drink consumption before exercise offered additive effects. We hypothesized that the cocoa-based protein and carbohydrate prototype drink would decrease skeletal muscle cell and inflammatory biomarkers and perceived soreness compared to water, a standard fluid often consumed during exercise bouts.We also hypothesized that consuming the test drink before exercise would elicit further reductions in oxidative stress markers and perceived soreness.
Starting from Scratch. So thar ya go: the researchers will put together their own drink and compare it with water for effect on DOMS. They are going to use TWO of the four markers for DOMS described above: the biomarkers like CK and LEFS - Lower Extremity Functional Sacle. In LEFS, participants report on a scale of 0-4 the perceived difficulty of carrying out a physical task (actual survey here, pdf). So one biological test and one subjective scoring test. It is SUCH a drag that DOMS tests are not standardized! And asking someone to reflect *about* how they'd find getting out of a car if they haven't gotten out of a car, for instance, is yup pretty durn subjective. Interesting, but subjective when there are measures like ROM and force production also available, and even perceived soreness from pressure.
Findings about Cocoa in Particular? That aside, what did the authors find? Not too much. The drink had no effect on the biomarkers of damage. So they didn't mitigate its biological effects. The authors think however that their use of LEFS rather than the usual in DOMS studies VAS is a step up because LEFS asks about daily activities rather than just how a poke feels. And as to their results with LEFS checked at 24 and 48 hour intervals?
For those trials where the test drink was ingested after exercise we noted significantly less of a reported change from 24 to 48 hours by the participants. This indicated a decrease in perceived DOMS and therefore less difficulty in performing various physical tasks 48 hours postexercise.Why does less change between 24-48 hours mean decreased DOMS?
DOMS gradually increases 24 hours postexercise and typically peaks 48 hours postexercise before beginning to decline (16).Now i'm a bit annoyed that for this to be the BIG RESULT, we only get a couple summative values for the questionnaire rather than the raw data for lets face it, only 13 participants. Here it is
Consuming the test drink after exercise resulted in a mean change of 2.6 plus or minus 6 compared to 13.7 plus or minus 10 for the control.In LEFS, the total score is out of 100, with a 90% confidence interval. What this suggests is that the scores changed by about 6 times as much in the non-drink case, which the authors suggest means that DOMS didn't get much worse in the drink case.
Here's personally where i'd actually like to see the raw data just to confirm that the direction of change for the non-drink group WAS that their scores went down (got worse) rather than up. We have to trust the authors' reporting. And i hate that.
The authors also spend considerable time speculating over why their form of cocoa rather than dutched may be a better use of cocoa to what's in chocolate milk
Concludium
This is why science is so cool: after an entire paper of data, experimental set up, discussion, yada yada yada, this is what we get
Based on the findings of our experiment we conclude that a recovery drink composed of a carbohydrate-to-protein ratio of 3.5:1 with the addition of flavonol-rich cocoa may (emaphasis mine -mc) decrease perceived muscle soreness after exercise.There is nothing in the results to show that any one of the elements in this drink - the protein, the carbs or the chocolate - has any particular effect on mitigating DOMS. Indeed, one previous study that said cocoa is fine for ldl, but not for reducing inflamation, which would kinda suggest that cocoa mayn't help with DOMS. The authors say that while there results show a similar lack of change in biomarkers, maybe it's the combination of protein/carb/cocoa that's having the effect. That is the subjective response.
Related Work. Interestingly, a previous study by Green and company that states rather categorically in its title that Carb or Carb/Pro drinks have no effect on DOMS is set aside by the present researchers. They suggest that really, Green's study didn't actually elicit anything with which to have a response to mitigate:
Therefore, it may be possible that the protocol of Green et al. did not impose adequate skeletal muscle cell damage to induce substantial perceived postexercise muscle soreness in participants.This helps the authors to say it's not cocoa alone; not clear that it's really not protein/carbs alone.
So all the more reason for the the authors to have studied a similar drink without the cocoa, rather than water, or along with water, they would have a stronger basis to assert that it's their anti-oxidant/flavonoid cocoa that's the Special Sauce for toning down DOMS. So why mightn't the authors have done something so obvious? I'd speculate something like the following.
The Gritty Realities of Reseasrch on a Shoe string - or Little Hershies Kiss
When one is designing a study, Saul Greenberg once suggested an heuristic to me about research i live by: think about the optimal outcomes of the study proposed. What will the best results be? Is that optimal outcome significant? If the authors of this paper had run that exercise what would they have said: the BEST we will be able to say if our results have an effect is that we will (a) see a difference in biomarkers and (b) see a difference in perceived soreness. And givent that, what will be be able to say about cocoa? Nothing. The best we will be able to say is that cocoa was in the mix and maybe it contributed to decreased DOMS, so best case: it's worth doing the next study to isolate this out.
Why not do the full study the first time? It would take either longer or would take more participants. There are costs to that. So, given that the authors didn't see any A but they did get some B which is sufficient to say "maybe" cocoa plays a role, i hope Hershies is sufficiently keyed up by this "maybe" to fund the next study that would compare the two formulations. Which will be the longer or bigger trial anyway. That could have been done from the start. But maybe Hershies said "what can you do with X dollars? if we like what you do maybe we'll give you X*y" - and so there we are. Maybe. I speculate wildly.
Well what can i tell ya? What can i possibly say?
All we do know from the data is that taking the drink before exercise rather than after exercise had no real effect on DOMS; taking the drink afterwards, the authors suggest based on their 24-48 hours DOMS increasing, shows it does.
So maybe maybe something in the composition and timing of the beverage that helped. What bit is a rather open question. One might say ah yes but there are other studies comparing say c.milk with carb/protein and the c.milk did better so it must be the C for Chocolate? Maybe. Maybe maybe and more maybe.
Might be a fun personal experiment: next time a new routine is in the offing, blend in those whole cacao beens and go nuts! you may even feel better for the next 24-48 hours. It's chocolate! how could it hurt?
Citations
McBrier NM, Vairo GL, Bagshaw D, Lekan JM, Bordi PL, and Kris-Etherton PM (2010). Cocoa-based protein and carbohydrate drink decreases perceived soreness after exhaustive aerobic exercise: a pragmatic preliminary analysis. Journal of strength and conditioning research / National Strength & Conditioning Association, 24 (8), 2203-10 PMID: 20634742
Karp JR, Johnston JD, Tecklenburg S, Mickleborough TD, Fly AD, & Stager JM (2006). Chocolate milk as a post-exercise recovery aid. International journal of sport nutrition and exercise metabolism, 16 (1), 78-91 PMID: 16676705
Mathur S, Devaraj S, Grundy SM, & Jialal I (2002). Cocoa products decrease low density lipoprotein oxidative susceptibility but do not affect biomarkers of inflammation in humans. The Journal of nutrition, 132 (12), 3663-7 PMID: 12468604
Wiswedel, I., Hirsch, D., Kropf, S., Gruening, M., Pfister, E., Schewe, T., & Sies, H. (2004). Flavanol-rich cocoa drink lowers plasma F2-isoprostane concentrations in humans Free Radical Biology and Medicine, 37 (3), 411-421 DOI: 10.1016/j.freeradbiomed.2004.05.013
Green MS, Corona BT, Doyle JA, & Ingalls CP (2008). Carbohydrate-protein drinks do not enhance recovery from exercise-induced muscle injury. International journal of sport nutrition and exercise metabolism, 18 (1), 1-18 PMID: 18272930
Related
- Nutrient timing May make a difference for recovery
- Carbs or Protein before bed?
- Kinds of protein for that recovery window?
- Supplement Curmudgeon - does that stuff do anything for you?
- Creatine and Beta Alanine for Aerobic Endurance?
- How about CoQ10 for endurance?
- would you like a heart rate monitor with that?
Wednesday, August 18, 2010
Ryan Andrews of Precision Nutrition: The PN voice of Reason and Wellbeing Education
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I've said before how much i like the Precision Nutrition program (review) for a bunch of reasons: as an approach to eating, it's based on nutrition habits not calorie counting. These habits act as a baseline to help one learn what and how our bodies respond to different foods in different circumstances. It's also got a great approach to health and well being in terms of getting sufficient movement happening.
But one of the things i have celebrated about PN in particular is the forum, which really means the people and the interaction with people offered there. This is a model of great forum interaction made up of just super folks. And the folks from PN are full participants along with folks just wanting to learn a healthy way to get to understand ourselves and food, students and professionals from all walks of life. As resources there are professional trainers from a rich variety of backgrounds, scientists, nutritionists, body workers, physicians, it's an amazing mix of expertise and experience. The quality of the interaction is first class, polite, convivial, witty, knowledgable and respectful. If you hang out on forums at all you'll appreciate how exceptional this sounds. It's par for the course here.
Personally, i've connected with lots of great folks at PN over the several years i've hung out there, learning about nutrtion and working out. Georgie Fear and Mike T. Nelson have contributed to numerous posts here. Roland Fisher, trainer extraordinaire i've mentioned often and you'll see his comments from time to time on the blog. Carter Shoffer's approach to peri-workout drinks on the PN forum is second to none, and he has a way of coming up with great analogies for difficult concepts - he's one of the guys that makes the Forum such a great place to be.
If we accept that leadership comes from the top and leadership sets the tone, then getting to engage with John Berardi a bit more this year shows that that niceness and professionalism does come from the team lead. His unflagging optimism about folks getting healthy with balanced food and workouts with the best of science and practice is inspiring.
More recently i've had the pleasure of interacting a bit more with the guy who's become literally "the Voice of PN" - Ryan Andrews is the person doing the voice overs for the forum tutorials, and more recently for the Precision Nutrition online Certification materials. He's also the author of 99.9% of PN's incredible and well researched "All About" article series. One of the assets of of getting PN is access to the forum, and access to the forum includes these practical/research summaries on everything from Cholesterol to Creatine; from Sleep to Protein to BCAAs to Fish Oil to - well anything to do with nutrition health and well being, pretty sure there'll be a PN All About article there.
I aksed Ryan if he's be willing to have a wee chat about who he is and how he's come to connect with PN, and a bit about his own approach to food and life. He agreed. The following is our discussion. To kick things off, here's Ryan's signature:
What are some of the trends in nutrition that are well let's say scary on the one hand or exciting on the other?
think ROland Fisher said something like but a child asks for stuff all the time, too, and it wouldn't be smart to deliver on that request all the time. So, what's it mean to "listen" wisely, shall we say, and how have you seen this go south?
Speaking of bombarding, could we talk a wee bit about popular voices on food right now? Michael 
Pollan for instance - very popular guy; great presence as part of food inc, very critical of what he calls nutritionism. This is Precision NUTRITION - what's your response to Pollan-ism, let's call it?
Cool, can you offer a couple of examples of science knowledge meeting reality where you seen this happening? that someone would recognize it as the two places coming together?
. 
Thank you very much, Ryan.
Related Articles:
This post is an interview with Ryan Andrews, Education director of Precision Nutrition. Ryan walks the talk, all the way down. He brings a careful, thoughtful eye to a wide range of issues in nutrition practice. As you'll see, he's a pretty exceptional person, with a life time's passion for wellbeing, blending good nutrition, health and fitness practices and thoughtful awareness of the choices we make within those practices.
I've said before how much i like the Precision Nutrition program (review) for a bunch of reasons: as an approach to eating, it's based on nutrition habits not calorie counting. These habits act as a baseline to help one learn what and how our bodies respond to different foods in different circumstances. It's also got a great approach to health and well being in terms of getting sufficient movement happening.But one of the things i have celebrated about PN in particular is the forum, which really means the people and the interaction with people offered there. This is a model of great forum interaction made up of just super folks. And the folks from PN are full participants along with folks just wanting to learn a healthy way to get to understand ourselves and food, students and professionals from all walks of life. As resources there are professional trainers from a rich variety of backgrounds, scientists, nutritionists, body workers, physicians, it's an amazing mix of expertise and experience. The quality of the interaction is first class, polite, convivial, witty, knowledgable and respectful. If you hang out on forums at all you'll appreciate how exceptional this sounds. It's par for the course here.
Personally, i've connected with lots of great folks at PN over the several years i've hung out there, learning about nutrtion and working out. Georgie Fear and Mike T. Nelson have contributed to numerous posts here. Roland Fisher, trainer extraordinaire i've mentioned often and you'll see his comments from time to time on the blog. Carter Shoffer's approach to peri-workout drinks on the PN forum is second to none, and he has a way of coming up with great analogies for difficult concepts - he's one of the guys that makes the Forum such a great place to be.If we accept that leadership comes from the top and leadership sets the tone, then getting to engage with John Berardi a bit more this year shows that that niceness and professionalism does come from the team lead. His unflagging optimism about folks getting healthy with balanced food and workouts with the best of science and practice is inspiring.
More recently i've had the pleasure of interacting a bit more with the guy who's become literally "the Voice of PN" - Ryan Andrews is the person doing the voice overs for the forum tutorials, and more recently for the Precision Nutrition online Certification materials. He's also the author of 99.9% of PN's incredible and well researched "All About" article series. One of the assets of of getting PN is access to the forum, and access to the forum includes these practical/research summaries on everything from Cholesterol to Creatine; from Sleep to Protein to BCAAs to Fish Oil to - well anything to do with nutrition health and well being, pretty sure there'll be a PN All About article there.
Ryan Andrews: "PN isn't about dieting.
PN is about helping people find what works for them."
PN is about helping people find what works for them."
Ryan D. Andrews, MS, MA, RD, CSCS, NSCA-CPT, ACSM-HFS, CISSN Director of Education - Precision Nutrition ---Healthy Food Bank --Compassionate CooksCan we touch on your training? The formal path you've taken with respect to nutrition work?
I did my undergrad in exercise science. I did my graduate degrees in exercise science and nutrition. When I arrived at grad school, I quickly realized that to have any impact in the nutrition world, I needed to become an RD. If I didn't get the credential, I would have always felt limited to what I could recommend to people.Can you talk a little about the RD? That's a biggie in terms of qualifications. But it's also a qualification i've seen met with considerable skepticism of late as people being wedded to the high carb world that is the Food Pyramid.
A RD spends at least 4 years studying nutrition, then does a 6-12 month nutrition internship, then must pass an exam, then does continuing education each year. In the past, I think RDs felt like they had to follow the governments advice about eating. But now, more RDs are starting to question old science and challenge strategies that aren't working. I know some RDs who are bright, cutting edge, and really help people get healthy. I alsoNo argument there. So moving away from the formal to the personal: one of your first tags on the PN bio is that you were a competitive bodybuilder. My sense of competitive bb is that there's a lot of time spent starving and feeling like crap. is this an incorrect view?
know some RDs who are boring, outdated, and don't know how to help people
eat (and can't eat healthy themselves). I guess most professions are like this, huh?
So why bb, and why competitive bb?When preparing for a contest, you are hungry and feel like crap. When trying to put on mass, you are always full and feel like crap.
I discovered weight training when I was 13 years old. I discovered healthy nutrition when I was 14 years old. I became fascinated with the ability to alter these to alter my body.Where did bodybuilding and nutrition intersect for you?
They always went together. Ever since I had my first training partner at age 14 - a discussion about training was always followed up by a discussion on eating.Sounds like you've had an interest in nutrition from your undergrad days - how did that happen?
I was interested in nutrition before college. I remember thinking how amazing it was that I could actually study exercise/nutrition after high school.OK, this is even more atypical. When your friends asked what you wanted to study and you said "food" how'd you describe the interest? Did you also like cooking at this point?
At this point, it was about nutrition science. People knew I was in shape and competed in bodybuilding. I was always known as the "nutrition and exercise guy." It's interesting looking back, because I actually knew very little about food, culture, farming and cooking. Only about science.You've written about not stepping on the scale much, and being a vegetarian who has his diet rather dialed in. How long did it take you to get that setting for yourself?
I'm always making adjustments and evolving. After bodybuilding, I was really able to listen to what my body needs, and treat my body well, instead of always forcing it to extremes. I know when I am making healthy decisions in my life. Seeing a number on the scale doesn't serve any purpose to me.Since this parameter *is* such big deal with so many of us, do you find that you're working to help folks find your perspective around the scale? For folks who are concerned about that number - or need to demonstrate a number for their sport, what is a suggestion you'd make to either group?
In terms of food decisions, when did the vegetarian (or is it vegan?) approach kick in for you? would you care to talk a little bit about that for you, your decision process? Your challenges?With everything related to nutrition, exercise, and lifestyle, it's about helping the person find what works for them. What works for me doesn't work for everyone. I do think that a lot of people feel like they 'need' a scale to have success with health - but really, I try to remind them that daily behaviors are what matters. We know what to do to be successful - the scale shouldn't dictate how we feel about ourselves and our habits. Even with bodybuilding, the scale didn't matter much. It was about how I looked in the mirror and how I felt about my physique. I would challenge everyone to think about how the scale impacts their life - and how it benefits or harms your decisions.
I was taking an "ethics in research" class during grad school. We were discussing animal research. I realized I wasn't very comfortable with using animals in research. I talked to my lab partner about this and she asked if I ate meat. I told her yes. She informed me that I was killing animals every day. I had never made that connection before. Meat was always just XX grams of protein. That's it. So, from that moment forward, I haven't consumed meat. The more I learned about animals being used in food production, the more I wanted to eat plant-based. I transitioned to a 100% plant-based diet over the next couple years (empahsis mine, -mc).That's cool that it took time to make that total plan move. Now that you're there, how long has it been? i ask because many people float back and forth, and a consistent non-meat approach over time is still pretty rare.
I haven't consumed meat for over 6 years. I haven't consumed any animalWhat is your biggest challenge when it comes to nutrition practice?
products at all for over 4 years.
Remembering what my values are when it comes to nutrition. Sometimes in our society, it's easy to forget and go with the masses.John talks about every two years doing the get shredded thing - do you have a similar walk in the desert?
No. Restrictive diets don't lead to anything positive for me. They mess with my head and end up making me disregard my body.That's very interesting. Are there any other ways you find that you listen to your body? i guess i'm thinking about movement, pain/injury etc?
I always allow wiggle room with my workout schedule. If I feel run down and fatigued, I take time off. If I feel full of energy and loose, I'll do extra workouts. If any movements feel awkward and/or painful, I do something else. I used to force things, and this led to pain/injury.How did you get SO involved with Precision Nutrition?
I've been following JB since I was 19 years old. Fast forward several years to when I was at Hopkins, I collaborated on a few projects with JB. We worked together well and got along. We did some articles for T-nation and some presentations for the NSCA. From there, I ended up wanting to transition away from Maryland, and JB offered me a job with PN.What are some of the features that have appealed to you, and that keep you involved?
PN isn't about dieting. PN is about helping people find what works for them. We provide a basic foundation, and then guide people through the outcomes based decision making process. Is it working? Or is it not working? Then make adjustments. PN is open-minded and progressive. I find those qualities essential. Also, PN has some of the most interesting and bright people I've ever met.That really resonates with what i've found too from the participant side. Folks on the forum tend to stick around long after whatever body comp challenges we've worked through, too. It's cool.
What are some of the trends in nutrition that are well let's say scary on the one hand or exciting on the other?
Nutrigenomics. It's fascinating and exciting, but opens a new level of "information overload" that North America probably can't deal with right now [see Berardi's interview with field leader Dr. Ahmed El-Sohemy here or here -mc].Have you seen folks general knowledge about food get worse or better?
It's weird. I've seen knowledge about calories and nutrients get better among the general population, but I've seen peoples knowledge about how to actually eat and listen to their body diminish.Really? since "listening to the body" seems to be a theme here, let's make sure we're on the same page for this. I remember you posting about eating now when you feel hungry - listening to that. And i
think ROland Fisher said something like but a child asks for stuff all the time, too, and it wouldn't be smart to deliver on that request all the time. So, what's it mean to "listen" wisely, shall we say, and how have you seen this go south?
We talk about it more here on calorie countingThis kind of thinking about food, relationships to food, what that means for the body, getting to grips with that, seems to lead to your title at PN is as director of education. What does that mean?
It comes back to what we REALLY want, what we value. Sure, eating donuts and sitting around might bring temporary pleasure - but it doesn't REALLY feel good. It leads to low energy, mood swings, bloating, disease, the list goes on. When we crave fruit - eat fruit, enjoy the fruit, stop just before being fully content, and move on. Once we start selecting whole foods, unaltered, our hunger and satiety cues recalibrate.
I am involved with educating people. I help with articles, presentations, coaching, certifications, courses, etc.Part of this work is the new Precision Nutrition Certification. Let's talk about that for a sec. There are existing certs out there - the CSCS and similar organizations also certainly have big chunks of their exams on nutrition for athletics. What did you want to do differently with the PN certs?
We wanted to keep it real. We wanted to provide textbook knowledge and then connect it with real world eating.Is that the main gap in current nutrition training?
Yes. There is a gap between science and real world eating. And there is a gap between science and where actual food comes from.As part of support for addressing this gap, the level 1 cert has put together an awful lot of resource from content to content types including a fat textbook, voice over slides, workbook, a discussion forum where the PN team is very responsive. When did you decide to do this and how did you decide to to in this way?
It was in the works for a couple years. JB and I collaborated and took it one step at a time.Let's talk about the text book for a second. How did y'all figure out the degree of complexity or not that you wanted to get into to make the content simple enough without being too simple?
It was helpful for JB and I to reflect on our educational experience and real world coaching experience. We focused on the items that are useful in both areas.How will folks know what to expect from a PN certified coach? I guess i'm asking about this because it seems that when stuff comes from organizations that sound generic like Candian College of Sports Medicine (there is no such thing - i just made that up, dear reader), it sounds a bit more authoritative than "precision nutrition" cert - than something effectively associated with a brand. One might think of such a coach "oh great: they know how to sell PN - i need someone who knows about nutrition; i don't want to eat 6 times a day" you know?
We want to empower PN certified coaches. We want to give them the knowledge base to help people with eating and health. Trainers are bombarded with nutrition questions, and having this certification will help them feel confident about responding.
Speaking of bombarding, could we talk a wee bit about popular voices on food right now? Michael Pollan for instance - very popular guy; great presence as part of food inc, very critical of what he calls nutritionism. This is Precision NUTRITION - what's your response to Pollan-ism, let's call it? Pollan is great. As people focus on the science and details of eating, we tend to eat worse. I think if we can join our scientific knowledge of nutrition with real world eating and culture - we'll have all bases covered, and really be able to achieve optimal health.
Cool, can you offer a couple of examples of science knowledge meeting reality where you seen this happening? that someone would recognize it as the two places coming together?
Example #1: "Wow, it seems like eating omega-3 fats is really good for my body. And gosh, omega-3 fats are found in flax seeds and hemp seeds. I'm going to start eating those in salads or on oatmeal."And related to food combinations, would you like two moments to talk about your take on Paleo?
Example #2: "Protein dense foods seem to be great for muscle mass and body
composition. I'm going to prioritize things like beans and greens each day
to ensure I get protein."
And one more again in the more popular/populist voices on food: Taub's good calories bad caloriesI don't really have any strong feelings on Paleo eating. No matter what, I think a diet based on whole, unprocessed foods is essential. But I've come across too many guys using "Paleo eating" as an excuse to eat a platter buffalo style chicken wings or get 2 big macs without buns. That ain't Paleo. I really like what Jack Norris has to say about it.
. He makes some excellent points and gives us some things to think about.
I don't think whole, unprocessed carb dense foods like grains and beans are resulting in health problems.For yourself, Ryan, how are you working out right now?
For the past few years, I've been doing more full body resistance training
and conditioning.
I'll do Monkey Bar Gym workouts 3-4 times per week
monkey bar gym tour with founder John Hinds
I'll also do a yoga class 1-2 times per weekYay on the no car. And with your own eating?
Other than that, I bike and walk each day since I don't have a car.
I don't like to spend too much brain power on my own eating. I already think about it enough with my coaching and job. Thus, simplicity rules.
I'll sometimes prep food in bulk. Stuff like brown rice, quinoa, lentils, or split peas for the week. Otherwise, I just prep food as I go.
I hardly ever carry food with me, as my job allows meals to be at home. If I'm going to be away, I just stop at a grocery store or healthy restaurant.
Most days:
-after my AM workout I'll have a super shake (with greens, fruit, nuts, etc.
Just like here: pn's super shake creations
If I am hungry later in the AM I'll have a slice of sprouted grain bread with some peanut or almond butter and some cut up veggies or salad
-Early afternoon I might have some roasted garbanzo beans and a piece of fruit
-For dinners - I'll rotate between veggie burgers, bean burritos, yams/potatoes, rice/beans, pizza, stir-fry's, big salads with aduki beans....stuff like that.
I drink lots of tea and water during the day -In the winter, I eat more grains, beans and cooked foods. In the summer, I eat more raw veggies and fruits and salads.A big yam for dinner, Ryan? This approach on the surface may seem a little un-PN's habits of protein and greens and fats at each feeding.
My meals aren't very "typical." I might have a big yam for dinner - that's it. Or a bowl of beans. Really basic stuff.
The way I eat works for me and my goals. And that's what PN is about. PN is about giving people a foundation and then helping to guide them in finding a strategy that works for them and their goals. Something that gets results and can be sustained.When you're not being Director of Education, what are you up to?
The way I eat is 100% PN.
I help at an organic farm. I am a newsletter editor for the American Dietetic Association. I do a lot of Monkey Bar Gym style workouts. I read lots of non-fiction. I help in the Boulder School Lunch Program. I like to go outside and bike, walk, swim. I really try to challenge myself to live a better life each day and figure out how to make the world a better place to live.A lot of folks would ascribe these kinds of principles to a religious or spiritual belief system. If that's not too personal, is that the case here, or is this the evolving Zen of Ryan?
I don't really follow any specific religion. Most organized religions don't appeal to me because it creates barriers between groups. One of my favorite quotes is by the Dalai Lama - "My true religion is kindness." I do my best to follow that religion.If there's one thing you'd like people to hold onto about nutrition, eating, what would it be?
Take a few minutes each day to think about the repercussions of your food choices. Think about how they impact the planet, your health, animals, workers, and so forth. Then make sure you are living in line with what you value.
Thank you very much, Ryan.
Related Articles:
- b2d nutrition article index
- Where Calorie Counting may fit in
- what's a whole protein or whole food?
- Georgie Fear on digestive enzymes...
- A minute with mike on protein timing
- 8lbs of lean mass in one hour
- change in diet is hard
- help with motivation in food practices and beyond
- human support helps with food practice change
- real cacao chocolate cake.
- balsamic vinegar - for that getting more from less eating.
Thursday, June 3, 2010
660 seconds (11 mins) of minimal resistance training = a HUGE difference for fat burning
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We know pretty unequivocally that the biggest part of a fat loss program is nutrition. That's first. BUT we also know that exercise can really help with keeping that program going. If we look at work on obesity and the role of exercise, we're looking at 5 hours of exercise a week (along with diet and expert support).
5 hours may be a good and healthy norm, but do you know any geeks who will say ya you bet i can get that 270-300 mins a week in. You bet. Not.
So a question might be, what's the minimal amount someone - especially someone at risk of being obese - can do in terms of working out to achieve a metabolic difference - where that metabilic change is to a boost start burning more calories in a day, and in particular burning more fat calories.
Researchers in 2009 took a look at just this question. The answer is - we're not entirely sure, but here's something that looks really promising:
Just to be clear about what the program included:
So not what anyone would call a super arduous program or one that folks without mobility/pain issues could perform as these moves are all done on machines. Some of us might have chosen different moves - like only compound moves without machines - but let's leave that aside. These have the advantage of also being seated, which for an inactive overweight population may be a good thing.
Main Pluses. The main thing is that after 6 months, the folks doing this very simple, every-other-day program had significantly greater fat free mass (FFM) - or lean mass (eg, muscle) than the Control group. That's nice. But what is associated with this in terms of potential fat loss support? An upped metabolism, as measured by various metabolic resting rate measures. Faster metabolism is a known associated outcome with exercise; that means more fuel will get used more quickly. For example, 24hr energy expenditure went up from 13091 kJ's a day to 13618. That's a big deal.
And one more finding - the RQ measure - checking expiration gasses - showed that the (resistiance training) RT group seemed to have an upped "fat oxidation" level - that is, burning more fat for fuel, as opposed to carbs. That's what we want from exercise: more fat burning.
Reality Check. Working out alone doesn't cut it for fat loss. In the results, both groups over six months had their weight go up and their BMI go up. That's not good. BUT the fat mass increase in the RT was "non-significant" at 3.3% but definitely significant in the C group at 8.8%. Note, there was no specified dietary intervention in the study; the only mandated change was the exercise program:
Take Aways. So what are the possible take aways from this study? One the authors suggest is that 11 mins. of resitance trainging might pose an interesting alternative to cardio/aerobics. As the authors state "the positive influence of even a small amount of RT on fat oxidation suggests an important role of RT on body mass management."
So imagine the benefit of combining a minimum 11mins of resistance training with some simple non-calorie-counting nutrition habits (like those found in precision nutrition) and who knows how the world might change?
Simple Program for fat loss? workout: 11mins of resistance, 3 days a week + nurtition: Change one thing a month with say the PN habits (download), and suddenly persistence of simplicity carries the day.
If you try this approach or know someone who will, pleaes let me know how it goes.
Citations
We know pretty unequivocally that the biggest part of a fat loss program is nutrition. That's first. BUT we also know that exercise can really help with keeping that program going. If we look at work on obesity and the role of exercise, we're looking at 5 hours of exercise a week (along with diet and expert support).5 hours may be a good and healthy norm, but do you know any geeks who will say ya you bet i can get that 270-300 mins a week in. You bet. Not.
So a question might be, what's the minimal amount someone - especially someone at risk of being obese - can do in terms of working out to achieve a metabolic difference - where that metabilic change is to a boost start burning more calories in a day, and in particular burning more fat calories.
Researchers in 2009 took a look at just this question. The answer is - we're not entirely sure, but here's something that looks really promising:
Long-term resistance training (RT) may result in a chronic increase in 24-h energy expenditure (EE) and fat oxidation to a level sufficient to assist in maintaining energy balance and preventing weight gain. However, the impact of a minimal RT program on these parameters in an overweight college-aged population, a group at high risk for developing obesity, is unknown. PURPOSE: We aimed to evaluate the effect of 6 months of supervised minimal RT in previously sedentary, overweight (mean +/- SEM, BMI = 27.7 +/- 0.5 kg x m(-2)) young adults (21.0 +/- 0.5 yr) on 24-h EE, resting metabolic rate (RMR), sleep metabolic rate (SMR), and substrate oxidation using whole-room indirect calorimetry 72 h after the last RT session. METHODS: Participants were randomized to RT (one set, 3 d x wk(-1), three to six repetition maximums, nine exercises; N = 22) or control (C, N = 17) groups and completed all assessments at baseline and at 6 months. RESULTS: There was a significant (P < 0.05) increase in 24-h EE in the RT (527 +/- 220 kJ x d(-1)) and C (270 +/- 168 kJ x d(-1)) groups; however, the difference between groups was not significant (P = 0.30). Twenty-four hours of fat oxidation (g x d(-1)) was not altered after RT; however, reductions in RT assessed during both rest (P < 0.05) and sleep (P < 0.05) suggested increased fat oxidation in RT compared with C during these periods. SMR (8.4 +/- 8.6%) and RMR (7.4 +/- 8.7%) increased significantly in RT (P < 0.001) but not in C, resulting in significant (P < 0.001) between-group differences for SMR with a trend for significant (P = 0.07) between-group differences for RMR. CONCLUSION: A minimal RT program that required little time to complete (11min per session) resulted in a chronic increase in energy expenditure. This adaptation in energy expenditure may have a favorable impact on energy balance and fat oxidation sufficient to assist with the prevention of obesity in sedentary, overweight young adults, a group at high risk for developing obesity.
Just to be clear about what the program included:Participants performed 1 set of 9 exercises designed to train all major muscle groups (chest press, back extension, lat pull down, triceps extension, shoulder press, leg press, calf raise, leg curl, and abdominal crunch) using a resistance of 3–6 1RM, approximately equal to 85–90% of 1RM.
So not what anyone would call a super arduous program or one that folks without mobility/pain issues could perform as these moves are all done on machines. Some of us might have chosen different moves - like only compound moves without machines - but let's leave that aside. These have the advantage of also being seated, which for an inactive overweight population may be a good thing. Main Pluses. The main thing is that after 6 months, the folks doing this very simple, every-other-day program had significantly greater fat free mass (FFM) - or lean mass (eg, muscle) than the Control group. That's nice. But what is associated with this in terms of potential fat loss support? An upped metabolism, as measured by various metabolic resting rate measures. Faster metabolism is a known associated outcome with exercise; that means more fuel will get used more quickly. For example, 24hr energy expenditure went up from 13091 kJ's a day to 13618. That's a big deal.
And one more finding - the RQ measure - checking expiration gasses - showed that the (resistiance training) RT group seemed to have an upped "fat oxidation" level - that is, burning more fat for fuel, as opposed to carbs. That's what we want from exercise: more fat burning.
Reality Check. Working out alone doesn't cut it for fat loss. In the results, both groups over six months had their weight go up and their BMI go up. That's not good. BUT the fat mass increase in the RT was "non-significant" at 3.3% but definitely significant in the C group at 8.8%. Note, there was no specified dietary intervention in the study; the only mandated change was the exercise program:
Differences in reported dietary intake (total energy, carbohydrate, fat, protein) were not significant between the baseline and intervention periods for either RT or C, or between the 2 groups during the intervention. The mean intakes for total energy, and percent of dietary carbohydrate, fat and protein were 9538 kJ/day, 50%, 34%, and 16%, respectively. There was no difference for either group at baseline and 6 months between energy and macronutrient intake during the three days of standardized food prior to or during the calorimeter stay.In other words, eating habits didn't change BUT over six months, these folks gained lean mass, had there metabolic rates go up, and instead of losing fat free mass as in control, had their fat free mass go up.
Take Aways. So what are the possible take aways from this study? One the authors suggest is that 11 mins. of resitance trainging might pose an interesting alternative to cardio/aerobics. As the authors state "the positive influence of even a small amount of RT on fat oxidation suggests an important role of RT on body mass management."
So imagine the benefit of combining a minimum 11mins of resistance training with some simple non-calorie-counting nutrition habits (like those found in precision nutrition) and who knows how the world might change?
Simple Program for fat loss? workout: 11mins of resistance, 3 days a week + nurtition: Change one thing a month with say the PN habits (download), and suddenly persistence of simplicity carries the day.
If you try this approach or know someone who will, pleaes let me know how it goes.
Citations
KIRK, E., DONNELLY, J., SMITH, B., HONAS, J., LeCHEMINANT, J., BAILEY, B., JACOBSEN, D., & WASHBURN, R. (2009). Minimal Resistance Training Improves Daily Energy Expenditure and Fat Oxidation Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 41 (5), 1122-1129 DOI: 10.1249/MSS.0b013e318193c64eTweet Follow @begin2dig
Miller, W., Koceja, D., & Hamilton, E. (1997). A meta-analysis of the past 25 years of weight loss research using diet, exercise or diet plus exercise intervention International Journal of Obesity, 21 (10), 941-947 DOI: 10.1038/sj.ijo.0800499
Wednesday, June 2, 2010
Why wait after eating to work out? empathetic to the parasympathetic?
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SO, here's a thought.
You know how your folks say don't go for a swim till an hour after eating? ever wondered why?
Here's a thought: turns out that eating triggers our peripheral nervous system, in particular, the parasympathetic nervous system aka "rest and digest" - so blood is going to digestion (the GI tract is pretty long. that's a lot of blood flow).
That means the energy going to the digestive system is not going to be as available for the rest of the peripheral nervous system actions (sympathetic), like moving muscles. So when we try to workout while we're digesting, something's gotta give - our bodies aren't optimized to do both things happily at once. Parasympathetic trying to say relax, lie down, digest. WHen working out, the sympathetic is going "fight or flight" - as you can imagine it's not a happy thing. Conflicting chemicals everywhere.
Now some folks say they have no problem working out right after eating. Anything is possible. But generally speaking, what i'm starting to think is "give my body a frickin' break" - rather than try to force it to split its energy across two demands - digest on the one hand; workout on the other - why not give it a chance to rest and digest before switching gears?
What i've also been experimenting with is, while i support my rest and digest, and since digestion starts in the mouth (especially with carbs), i'm also trying something learned at the Sustenance course last summer, and that's focus on tasting the food. For me, that means no working while eating. It also means not trying to talk and eat concurrently.
The idea is that chewing food, while it does help break down food for digestion and thus improve the likelihood of getting more nutrients/less getting processed into waste, also helps improve the taste experience which means usually eating less at one sitting - satiation is related to a taste experience. Part of my hypothesis as to why good quality chococalte means less is more because of flavour.
So how does this chewing and attention relate to digestion? Potentially longer time spent in pre-gut processing of food - which means less time needs for the gut, means less effort by the gut, means easier job for the gut, means getting to a workout sooner?
And you know what? Well i'll tell you - it's actually nice to take a bit of a break after the meal to chit chat or gaze out the window or sit for a minute - if i need an excuse i have the excuse of "i need a few minutes to digest my food - i'm going to sit for a minute" - but it's quite zen or delightful. I like delight.
I find generally speaking i can have breakie (some sprouts, veggies, oil and vinegar - being sure to get protein/greens/fats in) and comfortably be doing good cardio (rowing say) within 20 mins of eating. Not an hour. Perhaps because of the attention on chewing? And really less food does seem like more: when less is on the plate - even if it's spinach leaves - i'm going to linger over the leaf as it were.
So all we are saying is, give the parasympathetic nervous system a chance: provide opportunities to enjoy food. When we're trying to lose weight, chewing, tasting longer; using flavourings like balsamic or seasoning, indulge the flavour, all good. and the workout can be well energised. Tweet Follow @begin2dig
You know how your folks say don't go for a swim till an hour after eating? ever wondered why?
Here's a thought: turns out that eating triggers our peripheral nervous system, in particular, the parasympathetic nervous system aka "rest and digest" - so blood is going to digestion (the GI tract is pretty long. that's a lot of blood flow).
That means the energy going to the digestive system is not going to be as available for the rest of the peripheral nervous system actions (sympathetic), like moving muscles. So when we try to workout while we're digesting, something's gotta give - our bodies aren't optimized to do both things happily at once. Parasympathetic trying to say relax, lie down, digest. WHen working out, the sympathetic is going "fight or flight" - as you can imagine it's not a happy thing. Conflicting chemicals everywhere.
Now some folks say they have no problem working out right after eating. Anything is possible. But generally speaking, what i'm starting to think is "give my body a frickin' break" - rather than try to force it to split its energy across two demands - digest on the one hand; workout on the other - why not give it a chance to rest and digest before switching gears?
The idea is that chewing food, while it does help break down food for digestion and thus improve the likelihood of getting more nutrients/less getting processed into waste, also helps improve the taste experience which means usually eating less at one sitting - satiation is related to a taste experience. Part of my hypothesis as to why good quality chococalte means less is more because of flavour.
So how does this chewing and attention relate to digestion? Potentially longer time spent in pre-gut processing of food - which means less time needs for the gut, means less effort by the gut, means easier job for the gut, means getting to a workout sooner?
And you know what? Well i'll tell you - it's actually nice to take a bit of a break after the meal to chit chat or gaze out the window or sit for a minute - if i need an excuse i have the excuse of "i need a few minutes to digest my food - i'm going to sit for a minute" - but it's quite zen or delightful. I like delight.
I find generally speaking i can have breakie (some sprouts, veggies, oil and vinegar - being sure to get protein/greens/fats in) and comfortably be doing good cardio (rowing say) within 20 mins of eating. Not an hour. Perhaps because of the attention on chewing? And really less food does seem like more: when less is on the plate - even if it's spinach leaves - i'm going to linger over the leaf as it were.
So all we are saying is, give the parasympathetic nervous system a chance: provide opportunities to enjoy food. When we're trying to lose weight, chewing, tasting longer; using flavourings like balsamic or seasoning, indulge the flavour, all good. and the workout can be well energised. Tweet Follow @begin2dig
Thursday, January 7, 2010
The mysterious wholes: whole protein, whole wheat, whole sprouts. What are these things and why should i care (should i?)
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What is a "whole protein"? And if you aren't a vegetarian do you need to care? And if grains complete veggies to make proteins, aren't grains evil these days - then can we still make whole proteins from plants? And what's whole wheat anyway? How's that different from sprouted grain? is that better? Are vegetarians driven mad by all this food science? Let's have a go.
Context: It started with Black Bean Soup. When i first
started going vegetarian it was a common saw to say oh wow if you eat beans you need rice to get a complete protein. I didn't think to consider what that meant; i just took it as gospel. More recently, when looking at veggie protein powders, folks will talk about their "profiles" to make decisions on which ones they want to use, when.
This morning, having some awesome homemade black bean soup as part of breakie, the beans and rice question came up again as we discussed the seeming regional differences across the south west in terms of ratio (or presence) of rice to beans in burritos & chimichangas. Is rice with beans part of the "whole protein" story, and is that story a myth?
The Skinny on "Complete" Proteins.
A whole or complete protein for a person consists two things:
As a refresher, essential amino acids (sometimes represented as EAA's) are the ones we can't synthesise from other foods, but need. Here's the table of EAA's and amounts.
Foods for Completeness
So now we know we're looking for EAA's in certain amounts in order to hit complete protein world. TO get it out of the way, meat, fish and dairy all are complete proteins. So let's set those aside for a sec. Different plants are EAA incomplete in different ways. Hence the reason for blending.
A trad heuristic'y way to get at combos is the grouping of same: group 1, breads, cereals, grains completes any of group 2 legumes, group 3 veggies, group 4 nuts and seeds.
We can get a little more refined about combinations of plant based foods based on understanding specifically what the "limiting amino acid" is - what EAA a food is lowest in and then design up from there.
There's a nice table with some examples here at sheknows listing foods low in say tryptophan (eg, green beans, brown rice) or lysine (eg, yams). So combine some of these together and get your EAA benefits. In other words, you don't even HAVE to use grains to get your wholes (though some sites still act like you do).
These are good lists to have since sites that focus on "amount of protein" in a plant item aren't conveying the, er, whole EAA picture.
What about beans and rice?? Does this mean that there's truth to the beans and rice combo afterall? Based on the above, seems that would depend on what kind of beans we're talking about. The wonderful black bean (which in some places seems to go by the name "turtle" bean), staple of the burito, has a far more complete profile than say even the kidney bean. Just take a look at the black bean's GORGEOUS protein profile. Better than 100% of the EAA's! Kidney beans, by contrast have a score of 89% - no slouch.
So, while the black bean seems a complete EAA source on its own, no acoutrements required, wrapping a kidney bean burrito up in a soft tortia (corn or wheat) takes care of the missing protein profiles, so rice seems like what it is: a cheap filler. Especially when it's white rice. Boo.
So given that getting one's lysine and tryptophan in order mean having to get all freaked out about the foods on the plate?
Maybe a bit. But not much. First thing, we don't need to have the combo complements all in the same meal. Second thing, just understanding that the combos are needed for full EAA'ness, one may want to get a handle on food favorites and see what are the usual best complements to put together, especially if - no matter how one feels about grains - one is just trying to cut back on those more calorically dense carb foods.
If you're curious, just check out the foods you usually like to plate, and then do a check on whether these make good EAA combos. Nutrition.com is an amazing resource here as it DOES give the complete EAA profile of a food.
On the plus side, if we're already eating a variety of foods (lots of colors on the plate), apparently the likelihood of being screwed out of EAA's is vanishingly small.
For the conscientious meat eater, understanding plant-based proteins offers up easy ways to cut back on meat consumption, dropping it back to a few times a week rather than daily, as the energy costs alone of meat are so so high. Once we get that we do get whole proteins from as simple a combo as a yam and a green bean, or just black beans, getting into richer, more colourful options may mean just that much more sweetness and eating delight.
i'd like to thank Ryan D. Andrews from Precision Nutrition and PN Forum Regular Ron Ipock and their exchange with me on the PN forum about grains for prompting me to dig further into these questions.
Related Posts
Context: It started with Black Bean Soup. When i first
started going vegetarian it was a common saw to say oh wow if you eat beans you need rice to get a complete protein. I didn't think to consider what that meant; i just took it as gospel. More recently, when looking at veggie protein powders, folks will talk about their "profiles" to make decisions on which ones they want to use, when.This morning, having some awesome homemade black bean soup as part of breakie, the beans and rice question came up again as we discussed the seeming regional differences across the south west in terms of ratio (or presence) of rice to beans in burritos & chimichangas. Is rice with beans part of the "whole protein" story, and is that story a myth?
The Skinny on "Complete" Proteins.
A whole or complete protein for a person consists two things:
- the Essential Amino Acids and
- the correct amounts
As a refresher, essential amino acids (sometimes represented as EAA's) are the ones we can't synthesise from other foods, but need. Here's the table of EAA's and amounts.
| Essential Amino Acid | mg/g of Protein |
|---|---|
| Tryptophan | 7 |
| Threonine | 27 |
| Isoleucine | 25 |
| Leucine | 55 |
| Lysine | 51 |
| Methionine+Cystine | 25 |
| Phenylalanine+Tyrosine | 47 |
| Valine | 32 |
| Histidine | 18 |
A wee aside - Histidine: Histidine is kind of a weird one it seems, that seems to be context dependent as to whether or not it's an EAA or non-EAA. It shows up in lists of non-essential AA's too.
Another Aside - BCAA's: You may note that the popular in the weight lifting space, branch chain amino acids or BCAA's are part of the EAA's - these are Isoleucine, Valine and Leucine. Why? As i understand it, they're metabolised in the muscle rather than the liver, so they are the onsite, on board amino's used for muscle building, of which the biggie is Leucine.A few more notes about the EAA's. In a piece by Lyle McDonald, McDonald makes a further clarification about AA's: essentially all proteins are complete proteins, in that they have all the AA's in them, but *some* of those AA's are there in differing amounts. So, the idea of combining foods is to bring together the missing bits, we'll talk about this next.
This finding has lead lots of folks to think BCAA's (or more recently just Leucine) must be the best way to go for muscle building. Well, it seems we're more complex than that. So while there are many many studies showing how great BCAA's are, for some strange reason, i can't find studies that pit say whey isolate head to head with BCAA's. Mike T. Nelson, who's doing research on metabolic flexibility, however, is not the only exercise expert recommending more complete packaging of EAA's for benefit (as per this minute with mike). Seems we also need the other things that come from complete proteins for all things bright and beautiful for food.
Foods for Completeness
So now we know we're looking for EAA's in certain amounts in order to hit complete protein world. TO get it out of the way, meat, fish and dairy all are complete proteins. So let's set those aside for a sec. Different plants are EAA incomplete in different ways. Hence the reason for blending.A trad heuristic'y way to get at combos is the grouping of same: group 1, breads, cereals, grains completes any of group 2 legumes, group 3 veggies, group 4 nuts and seeds.
We can get a little more refined about combinations of plant based foods based on understanding specifically what the "limiting amino acid" is - what EAA a food is lowest in and then design up from there.
There's a nice table with some examples here at sheknows listing foods low in say tryptophan (eg, green beans, brown rice) or lysine (eg, yams). So combine some of these together and get your EAA benefits. In other words, you don't even HAVE to use grains to get your wholes (though some sites still act like you do).
These are good lists to have since sites that focus on "amount of protein" in a plant item aren't conveying the, er, whole EAA picture.
What about beans and rice?? Does this mean that there's truth to the beans and rice combo afterall? Based on the above, seems that would depend on what kind of beans we're talking about. The wonderful black bean (which in some places seems to go by the name "turtle" bean), staple of the burito, has a far more complete profile than say even the kidney bean. Just take a look at the black bean's GORGEOUS protein profile. Better than 100% of the EAA's! Kidney beans, by contrast have a score of 89% - no slouch.
So, while the black bean seems a complete EAA source on its own, no acoutrements required, wrapping a kidney bean burrito up in a soft tortia (corn or wheat) takes care of the missing protein profiles, so rice seems like what it is: a cheap filler. Especially when it's white rice. Boo.
Aside: Grains? And for folks thinking no way i'm not doing grains; grains R evil - remember that whole grains, sprouted grains etc are way way far from evil and can make great choices for protein completeness.Variety Rules
They tend to get the evil label for a variety of reasons, but it seems few folks really discriminate between processed (low nutrition/high calories) and whole/sprouted grains (higher to high nutrition and lower cals).
And just a reminder on what 100% whole wheat means for example: that's when the whole durn seed - bran, germ, endosperm - is ground up into flour and used for whatever's being made.
Sprouting Aside By slight contrast, sprouted grains are living things(to make: get a whole grain - here's a list of candidates -from your local place to buy such food comestibles and soak 'em). To make bread, these sprouts get mashed up into a dough - not reduced to flour - and have up to three times the fiber of your whole grain flour. Isn't that interesting. Really - getting the daily requirement of fiber is no small thing. Lentils are super high relatively speaking, but every day? Also the enzymes that come along with sprouting can make the grain easier to digest. Germination apparently ups other nutrient content, too.
Given the above, how can whole grains be evil?
So given that getting one's lysine and tryptophan in order mean having to get all freaked out about the foods on the plate?
Maybe a bit. But not much. First thing, we don't need to have the combo complements all in the same meal. Second thing, just understanding that the combos are needed for full EAA'ness, one may want to get a handle on food favorites and see what are the usual best complements to put together, especially if - no matter how one feels about grains - one is just trying to cut back on those more calorically dense carb foods.If you're curious, just check out the foods you usually like to plate, and then do a check on whether these make good EAA combos. Nutrition.com is an amazing resource here as it DOES give the complete EAA profile of a food.
On the plus side, if we're already eating a variety of foods (lots of colors on the plate), apparently the likelihood of being screwed out of EAA's is vanishingly small.
For the conscientious meat eater, understanding plant-based proteins offers up easy ways to cut back on meat consumption, dropping it back to a few times a week rather than daily, as the energy costs alone of meat are so so high. Once we get that we do get whole proteins from as simple a combo as a yam and a green bean, or just black beans, getting into richer, more colourful options may mean just that much more sweetness and eating delight.
i'd like to thank Ryan D. Andrews from Precision Nutrition and PN Forum Regular Ron Ipock and their exchange with me on the PN forum about grains for prompting me to dig further into these questions.
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