Showing posts with label sustenance. Show all posts
Showing posts with label sustenance. Show all posts

Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Head Shift: Why not look for More Time to Move rather than as Little as Possible?

ResearchBlogging.org Maybe we should seek to move more rather than the least amount possible in a week. Maybe that's a much better place to be. Let's consider why that might help us out in so many parts of our lives, and the research that supports it. This proposal is set against popular approaches to fitness. Lots of folks celebrate ways for us to "take less time" to work out. After all, there's more to life than being in the gym. For sure. And i'm all for efficiency and elegance in all things. A stupid workout may just be a stupid workout: when you take an hour, make it a beautiful hour.

But what i've been thinking about really is that we are so wrong wrong wrong when we take what i'm increasingly seeing as the "brains with bodies" approach to movement: we seek to find the smallest slice of time during the week for our movement, like that's the least important part of our day, a chore to be got rid of. As exciting and necessary as flossing one's teeth.

But we are not just brains with bodies that like the neighbour's dog we are burdened with having to take for a walk once a day when they're on holiday.  How many of us make excuses like we don't have time to move - to walk, to run, to pick stuff up and put it down, to play a game? Our bodies are often constructed culturally as burdens rather than collaborators in our life's work and pleasure.

And sure those "workouts in 6 mins" or 20 mins or whatever are all trying to get folks "at least doing something" - but again, maybe that's just the wrong message to be sending. In whose interests is it for us to be just well enough to keep going to work and not costing a health plan or workers comp for down time?

Movement is Smart(er) - no really.
As i do more work on movement and the way we are wired, it's increasingly clear that the opposite is true: we owe it to ourselves, cognitively and physically to find any time we can to move; in as many ways and at as many speeds as we can. When we don't use parts of our brains, the circuits re-route to what we do use. This is verified in the past 20 years of neurology.

We are use it or lose it systems. Our bodies adapt all the time. And this is systemic. What we don't use - like bone mineral density - gets taken away. Seriously, no joke. Likewise when we don't move joints in their ROM they start to osify or go arthritic in the unused portions.

 The above use it or lose it paradigm may still be read as we are enslaved by our bodies and so we must find the shortest most optimal path to do the least amount of work to get the most benefit. And that, too, seems to be a way way wrong and unhealthy and unhelpful life attitude. Phooey, i say.

Consider this: life may be more fun and brilliant if we see our bodies as part of who we are.

Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the BrainSkilled movement practice, for instance, lights up our brains in MRIs. There is increasing evidence likewise that movement enhances intellectual performance. Studies done with kids show especially the earlier "exercise" starts, the greater the intellectual benefits [2007, 2009a, 2009b ]. But at the other end of the scale, movement has been seen to help elderly at risk of observed cognitive decline, recover function, too [2010a]. Likewise, general memory function endurance is assisted by exercise/movement, and enhances brain plasticity [2010].

Indeed, the studies have become so rife connecting movement with intelligence that there's even a popular press book out right now called Spark: How exercise will improve the performance of your brain. The book summarizes a lot the findings and puts together cognitve enhancing exercise programs.

Inert = Loss of Comepetetive Edge
It seems pretty clear now that for those of us who are "knowledge workers" we are also actually doing ourselves a competitive disservice by staying as innert as possible, moving as little as possible - whatever that means. But again - that may sound like a threat, and the body/burden thing raises its head. We imagine scenes from Gattica and forced treadmill running and heart rate monitoring.

Moving, though, if we take it that that's what we're designed to do, is something we can do everywhere at anytime - or at least we can so imagine. In the work environment, there are desks that let us stand or sit; working at whiteboards that let us stand and walk around. These facilitate movement. And no i'm not a fan of treadmill desks. They may burn calories but can play havok with gait, visual and vestibular systems - juries way out and tending to no. Lord, if we got beyond the "calorie burn" as the only reason to move it move it, we wouldn't have to worry about desks.

Example of Action Work. A colleague of mine has only a standing desk in his office, and otherwise has many rehab balls (usually pretty squishy) for lounging. No chairs. He gets up in the middle of meetings and paces. He's also a dancer, not just a field leading computer scientist. It's great. That's movement. He bikes to work and his main moving gig is his folk dancing. That's healthy. Multiplanar movement. Awesome. AND HE ENJOYS IT - he loves to dance. It's part of his life; not something that he must do. He actually shapes his "real job" schedule around his weekly dance classes. And boy is he smart. Sharp sharp, that one. Connection? As we've seen, research suggests it helps.

I wrote about awhile ago how pick up games of five a side football were about the best blend of strength workouts one could get and got lots of comments from colleagues about how much they enjoy that kind of thing "when it happens" - maybe we need to make it happen.

Perhaps we need to fall in love with being in our bodies? Want to take them out on dates. Play dates. Learn to enjoy treating them/ourselves to what turns on the happy hormones and helps us feel better. Which is another cool thing: the more we move, the better we tend to feel overall - again, cognitively as well as in terms of general wellbeing. Stress gets blown off better; food gets processed better.  We feel better about ourselves

Five+ Hours a week - to be happy with ones body?
John Berardi of Precision Nutrition has worked with hundreds (or thousands now) of clients for years. His take away has reinforced that folks who move it a minimum of five hours a week seems to correlate most strongly with greatest self-satisfaction with body image. My sense is increasingly that five+ hours a week correlates with more kinds of wellbeing than just body comp.

Now some of us can't imagine five whole hours a week just getting our body to move. We want to do the intervals or the whatever that are at most 3 sessions per week for 20 mins. And heck, i've written about working out for just 6 mins a week that has equivalent effect as hours of cardio, or elsewhere 660secs a week to show a considerable difference for overweight geeks. The theme is always "it only takes this teeny weeny amount to have an effect" - so why do more, right? Like we're off the hook then. I mean if all we need is 6 super intense minutes, the rest be dammed. We can get back to the screen.

What Systems Are Measured in Minimal Movement Studies?
But what's the effect? cardio vascular well being. Heavens knows that's important. But what about the rest of us? The respiratory and cardiovascular systems - the two most often discussed in health as part of "aeorbic fitness" - are only two of eleven physiological systems in the body. That leaves nine more to go. Consider the skin, skeleton, muscles, nervous system, hormones, lymph, sex, waste, digestion. What do they need? Turns out movement is pretty good for all of them.

To give one example, breathing is a big pump for lymph circulation and flushing. Exercise helps work breathing, so that has an impact on immune function. Movement, especially loaded work and c/v work,  we know helps fascilitate nutrient uptake, and hormonal balance like insulin sensitivity. Stop/start movement like socer or weight lifting is great for our use-it-or-lose-em bones. Indeed we know that joints literally start to seize up from lack of movement in full range of motion, or develop pain conditions like RSI from overuse of one movement direction unbalanced by the others in that joint/muscle combination. It's amazing that we don't all keel over with *only* 20mins, 3 times a week of some kind of activity


Being Embodied Can be Fun
Brad Pilon made an observation on facebook lately
"Obesity. We concentrate on nutrition and exercise, but some other things are going on too. Did you know that 'sporting goods sales' have been steadily declining for the last several years? Why buy a soccer ball when you can buy fifa 2010? Hockey? that's what the Wii is for right? Bikes & skateboards? Too dangerous. There's excuses for it all, but still..lack of play time may be one of the biggest factors." July 23, 6:56 pm, 2010
As an antidote, Frank Forencich at exuberant animal has an entire blog dedicated to movement/play. At the recent zhealth strength and sustenance course, we learned so many ways to move - including not moving but different forms of concentrics - or exhausting mircro movements - that it seems movement can be got from just about anywhere. And since one of the pay offs of movement can be endorphin rushes, finding any excuse to do it may just be the best thing in the world.

Also before the strength and suppleness course, we played frisbee at the end of the day. An hour of catch and a game of Ultimate each night and you've bagged your 5 hours without even thinking about it. The challenge is now to implement something similar back in Normal World.

Changing Perspective; New Discoveries.
Einstein is attributed with saying something to the effect that we can't solve our problems with the tools that created them. Easy for Mr. Paradigm Shifter I invented Relativity and topped Newtonian Physics guy to say, perhaps, but it's a salutory thought.

In this case, the fast food head space that wants what it wants now and for the minimal effort in order to go do something else - to not pay attention to what we eat; to not pay attention to how we move - is the problem, and trying to find a solution for our emotional (stress), physical and nutrional whiles with the least effort/time possible is entirely the wrong paradigm.

Maybe the paradigm shift is - what do i need to change to move the MOST i can during the day, the week, now? Related might be: What do i need to do to get the most pleasure from the best food today, to be present to being here as much as possible, to have the best rest tonight to concentrate the most i can on what i do now and later?

We're fully integrated, physical creatures, though our world is increasingly designed to shape us as brains with bodies. Abandoning that belief and moving towards the Movement Light as much rather than as little as possible feels and performs, it seems, a whole lot better - across all the rest of what we do, too, don't you think?.




Refs
Castelli DM, Hillman CH, Buck SM, & Erwin HE (2007). Physical fitness and academic achievement in third- and fifth-grade students. Journal of sport & exercise psychology, 29 (2), 239-52 PMID: 17568069

Eveland-Sayers BM, Farley RS, Fuller DK, Morgan DW, & Caputo JL (2009a). Physical fitness and academic achievement in elementary school children. Journal of physical activity & health, 6 (1), 99-104 PMID: 19211963

Chomitz, V., Slining, M., McGowan, R., Mitchell, S., Dawson, G., & Hacker, K. (2009b). Is There a Relationship Between Physical Fitness and Academic Achievement? Positive Results From Public School Children in the Northeastern United States Journal of School Health, 79 (1), 30-37 DOI: 10.1111/j.1746-1561.2008.00371.x

Baker LD, Frank LL, Foster-Schubert K, Green PS, Wilkinson CW, McTiernan A, Plymate SR, Fishel MA, Watson GS, Cholerton BA, Duncan GE, Mehta PD, & Craft S (2010a). Effects of aerobic exercise on mild cognitive impairment: a controlled trial. Archives of neurology, 67 (1), 71-9 PMID: 20065132

Berchtold, N., Castello, N., & Cotman, C. (2010b). Exercise and time-dependent benefits to learning and memory Neuroscience, 167 (3), 588-597 DOI: 10.1016/j.neuroscience.2010.02.050

Sunday, April 18, 2010

Mentor Support: an unsung key predictor of weight loss and weight loss maintenance

ResearchBlogging.org There's one weight loss study that somehow has been in the public eye since 2003. Each time a version of its data gets published, it gets media attention for showing that LOTS of exercise helps maintain weight loss. Now from my reading of that data, that's actually kind of a misrepresentation of the findings in the paper. There are THREE factors that impact weight loss maintenance: caloric restriction (1200-1500kcals), 270-300mins of (vigorous) exercise a week AND (the under reported component) regular human contact intervention about compliance with the protocol. Finally, in yet another paper about this study, this later part of the work is being highlighted a bit more in the paper "Contribution of Behavior Intervention Components to 24-Month Weight Loss." I find it fascinating that such an interesting predictor of success - along with the more familiar caloric reduction - has been so seemingly downplayed in favor of hours of exercise.

Background
Last year (2009), discussion of a second paper (published July 2008) on a 2 year study of obese women losing weight generated lots of attention.  In particular, Time focused on one aspect of the study, calling their piece "The Myth of Moderate Exercise." They focused on the finding that, in a trial of 201 obese women ("conducted between December 1999 and January 2003") who took off and kept off 10% of their body, did so by exercising at twice the amount of time recommended by the CDC (center for disease control), and by doing vigerous - not moderate - work.

A less well cited piece on the study at WebMD did make a bit more about the social aspect of the study that was seen to contribute to participants' ongoing success. One more even less cited post at FoodConsumer.org, unlike Time, got it, too:
But even among this group who sustain 10 percent weight loss, exercise may not be the only thing they did to have the effect.   These people also completed more phone calls with the research staff and engaged in more eating behaviors recommended for weight loss and had a lower intake of dietary fat.
This was the second time this same study data had garnered attention for the reason Time made primary. Back in 2005,  WebMD published a story called "how much exercise sparks weight loss." It focused on the data that showed that the women who exercised for 4.5-5 hours a week, at an overall vigorous intensity, lost the most weight. This was the first time the full study data had been taken out for a walk - this time at a presentation at the North American Association for the Study of Obesity’s annual scientific meeting, Vancouver, Canada, Oct. 15-19, 2005.  Prior to this, a one year version of the study, with pretty much the same findings at the 12 month point was reported in 2003 in the Journal of American Medical Association. Gotta say, i am amazed at the longevity of this data set. It's a lesson for academics about how much information one can get from a rich data set.

Indeed, here's the latest version: April, 2010, Journal of the American College of Sports Medicine, "Contribution of Behavior Intervention Components to 24-Month Weight Loss."

Oh, and just a few months before this April 2010 version of the data,  the American College of Sports Medicine put out a press release taking "strong exception to assertions [in that original Time Article?] that exercise can inhibit weight loss by over-stimulating the appetite." The key person cited  in the PR is John Jakicic, author of the above study and who also just happens to "[chair] a committee on obesity prevention and treatment for the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) and helped write an ACSM Position Stand on strategies for weight loss and prevention of weight regain for adults."

Naturally, the ACSM statement says exercise helps maintain weight loss And to that end, quotes an awful lot of Jakicic's singular study's findings. Now, that all sounds great, but let's face it, (1) this cohort was 201 obese women, and (2) the ACSM may have just a little invested in celebrating the importance of exercise. They were burning off 1800+ calories with exercise AND living on calorie reduced diets AND were still, after two years, considered overweight. So their health had certainly improved, but if nothing else, this cohort shows that losing weight from an obese state takes long, hard graft. But it also seems to benefit from something else that may be just as necessary, and that's the human expert support.

Telephones: The Secret Ingredient?
Just to be clear, i'm in no way suggesting that exercise doesn't help with weight loss. Recently i've discussed just two of many studies - one on HIIT, one on cardio - that shows benefit for fat loss. But what i am intrigued by, and what's been in the published data since day one, is the fact that exercise and BIG calorie restriction were not the only key factors in getting the weight off, and perhaps just as importantly, keeping it off. While the researchers have made this point repeatedly in the data, it's one they themselves seem reluctant to foreground, even in the latest study.  Here's the abstract:

Sustaining weight loss at the long term is difficult.
Purpose: To examine if eating behaviors, physical activity levels, and program participation influence ones ability to achieve ≥5%, ≥7%, and ≥10% weight loss during a period of 24 months.
Methods: Data from 170 overweight and obese women (body mass index = 32.7 ± 4.2 kg·m−2) were analyzed in this study. All women followed a standard 24-month behavioral weight loss program in which they were instructed to decrease caloric intake and increase physical activity levels. Eating behaviors, body weight, and physical activity levels were assessed at baseline and at 6 and 24 months. Program participation was evaluated by the percentage of group meetings attended and the percentage of telephone calls completed with an interventionist. Three separate stepwise linear regression analyses were performed to identify variables that were predictive of ≥5%, ≥7%, and ≥10% weight loss at 24 months.
Results: The percentage of telephone calls completed and change in weight loss eating behaviors predicted ≥5% (r2 = 0.16), ≥7% (r2 = 0.14), and ≥10% weight loss (r2 = 0.10) at 24 months. However, the change in physical activity levels from baseline to 24 months was only predictive of weight losses ≥10% (r2 = 0.11).
Conclusions: Behavioral factors, such as adopting healthy eating behaviors and telephone contact time, are important components that assist individuals in achieving weight losses ≥5%. However, high levels of physical activity play a more prominent role in sustaining weight losses ≥10%. Therefore, innovative strategies to enhance long-term exercise adherence should be developed.
That's an interesting conclusion. It separates out achieving a weight loss target to sustaining a weight loss target. It says, if i'm reading it correctly, that eating behaviors and social expert support about the progress in the program are potent factors for getting to weight loss equal to 5% of total weight, or for that matter to anything above 5%. To *sustain* weight loss that is equal to or greater than 10%, however, high level physical activity has to be there. At least if you're an obese woman.

Here's a bit on the way social support with the protocol worked:
During the initial 6 months, participants attended weekly group intervention meetings that focused on specific behavioral strategies to adopt and maintain the recommended eating and physical activity components. From months 7 to 12, participants were to attend biweekly meetings, with the frequency of these meetings reduced to monthly during months 13 to 18, and these meetings no longer offered during months 19 to 24. The group intervention meetings were complemented with brief individualized telephone contacts between months 7 and 24. The frequency of these telephone contacts was biweekly during months 7 to 12, monthly during months 13 to 18, and biweekly during months 19 to 24. Phone calls were scheduled for a period of up to 10 min; however, the weight loss counselor could extend the call beyond the 10 min period if deemed necessary. All calls followed a structured script, and calls were prescheduled to facilitate the ability of the subject to participate in this call
Here's some of the main findings correlating effect of this contact with results:

Telephone contact time, expressed as the percentage of telephone calls completed, was significantly greater (P G 0.001) using the Q5%, Q7%, and Q10% weight loss criteria, in the MAINTAIN group (79.4%, 79.5%, and 83.6%, respectively) compared with the NONMAINTAIN (69.3%, 70.6%, and 68.4%, respectively) and NONADOPT (64.4%, 67.7%, and 69.6%, respectively) groups. There was no significant difference in participant session attendance between groups for any of the weight loss criteria
In other words, whether folks went to meetings or not wasn't the big factor; the time of direct contact that folks made seems to correlate with success.  My humble take is that, gosh, this is a pretty significant component to ongoing success. So heere's a conclusion, given that, i don't quite understand. The authors state:
On the basis of the results of this study, physical activity was a key factor in the ability to achieve this magnitude of weight loss when used in combination with improved eating behaviors and sufficient contact with the intervention staff (Table 4). Thus, innovative strategies that would promote the adoption and maintenance of sufficient doses of physical activity are needed, and this may facilitate the achievement of larger magnitudes of longterm weight loss.
If "sufficient contact" and "improved eating behaviours" are key, why do the authors only want to propose only workout strategies? Not to worry, though: the authors seem to come around by the conclusion of the study:
In addition, data from the current study indicate that sufficient levels of physical activity in combination with appropriate eating behaviors and maintaining contact with a weight loss specialist are important predictors of Q10% weight loss at 24 months, which is the level of weight loss recommended by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (14). Therefore, to assist overweight and obese individuals in achieving and maintaining weight losses Q10% of initial body weight, innovative strategies that would enhance long-term adherence to appropriate exercise and eating behaviors and that facilitate continued contact with a weight loss specialist should be implemented.

This is a pretty substantial result that is intriguingly reiterated in a smaller cohort study carried out over at Precision Nutrition awhile ago (and discussed at b2d here).

To the folks who were "extremely happy" with the progress towards their weight goals, 77% said that they'd had regular mentorship from someone who was in the shape they wanted to achieve.

It's important to note that not everyone needs social/expert support to achieve their weight loss goals. Brad Pillon, whose work is continually interesting and intriguing, blogged recently about how happy he was to carve his own path. And any guy who can fast regularly twice a week is probably just that kinda guy. But let's face it: Mr. Pillon of the terrific Eat, Stop, Eat has a heck of a background in nutrition and supplements, so perhaps he's not the Norm in the distribution here? Maybe?

The Four-Day Win: End Your Diet War and Achieve Thinner PeaceMartha Beck of the Four Day Win (your way to Thinner Peace [i love that]) reiterates the value of social support for success in body comp goals, encouraging folks who don't have it for free in their social network to go pay for it (precision nutriton - the forum - is the biggie i've praised for ages for this value; the lean eating program takes that to daily, direct contact).

For the rest of us, then, it seems we more than get by, but can thrive with a little help if not just from supportive friends, but from knowledgeable mentors.

And uptake of *that* human support component is, at least in this Never Ending Study, an unsung key predictor of success with caloric reduction and exercise for attainment and maintenance of body comp success.


Related Posts


PS Please Remember,

Jamie Oliver's food revolution. Please check out the petition for better food in kids'schools.
JO's excellent TED talk on same.


UNICK, J., JAKICIC, J., & MARCUS, B. (2010). Contribution of Behavior Intervention Components to 24-Month Weight Loss Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 42 (4), 745-753 DOI: 10.1249/MSS.0b013e3181bd1a57

Monday, December 7, 2009

Supplement Curmudgeon: Does that DO anything for you?

I've recently come to the conclusion that i think i've become a training supplement curmudgeon. Anytime i see someone on an associated forum asking about where they can get a good brand of glutamine or even bcaa's but especially anything nitric oxidyish, i find my eyeballs rolling.

What do we know about longitudinal responses to stuff that shows these refined fractions do anything marvelous? As far as i know the assessment of glutamine from 2002 that unless you're training at altitude, or have GI distress from malto/dextro carbs, it's a good thing to use, has only been reaffirmed (see overview 2007). And yet it keeps showing up in formulas of stuff.

Likewise there are legions of studies to show that BCAA's are wonderful, but when compared with plain old Whey, whey rules. It also seems that if there were any remaining doubt about creatine monohydrate vs creatine ethyl esther, this year's research has raised sufficient questions about CEE to say CM is once again affirmed as the winner. Again.

And as for nitric oxide supplements, i'm willing to own that i may be wrong, but the resaerch has only shown that without it, protein synthesis does not occur - if NO is chemically surpressed. Having more of it present doesn't - again as far as i can tell from extant research - increase protein synthesis. There are other ways to get a pump - though it's not clear getting a pump aids protein synthesis either.

Supplements That Support What we Want to Do: Work.
As far as i can tell, the supplements that seem to have the best value are those that support energy production, and then support protein synthesis. So, we seem to know that after 20 years of research, creatine monohydrate is good for grinding out a few more quality intense reps. Nice.

We also seem to see promise in Beta Alanine for energy production and some recent studies have looked at *perceived* fatigue reduction in athletic contexts like football games. Rather surprising, but interesting. Worth looking at.

After this, the most research seems to be around getting some carbs and proteins into a person after a workout (carbs are needed for protein synthesis if muscle building of any kind is the aim). But even here, nutrient timing is not established unequivocably, but the nutrient requirements are. And here, it seems things closer to a food - like whey vs bcaa's - may have better effect.

These are the basics. Now, there's all sorts of stuff out there to give one's workouts a boost - to get charged up to go GRRR. But again, as far as i can tell, the two main ingredients in such combinations usually come down to caffeine and/or l-tyrosine (sometimes taurine). Tyrosine i do like once in awhile in lieu of caffeine. But what is the point of this? Why does one need/want to get caffenated to work hard? As work earlier this year showed, one actually gets substantial performance benefits from surprisingly small amounts of caffeine (not coffee. alas, there's a difference).

Reality Check
About two years ago, determined to explore the range of possible ways to get my teeth into my workouts, i ordered as many ingredients as i could see listed on most t-nation type products like power drive, surge, or products like Xtreme ICE etc. I chatted with folks at precision nutrition's forum about various CNS stacks like this one by john berardi for competition/heavy training schedules.

80mg caffeine
--CNS stimulation

300mg of green tea extract
--CNS stimulation

3g Tyrosine - (OR 1.5g N-acetyl-L-Tyrosine)
--Epi and Norepi precursor formation (but precursors must form neurotransmitters and these neurotransmitters must be released - the green tea and caffeine assist in NT release)

1g of Lecithin (or Choline) - (OR 100-200mg DMAE)
--AcH precursor formation (but, same as above, these precursors must be released)

15mg Policosanol
--Increases AcH release, decreases AcH breakdown in NM junction, and increases AcH binding affinity (all leading to decreased reaction time)

*10mg Vitamin B6*
--Potentiates the effects of the other ingredients

Yes i gave these a go. I honestly don't know if they did much for my workouts. I think the tyrosine is a great perker upper and focuser, sometimes surreally so -but - and this is the really deep part - how often do i work out when i actually need to be more in the zone of my workout? like i won't complete it without that? Or, should i not do so (hasn't happened in ages), it would make a difference in the not even grand but rather immediate scheme of things?

My workouts are generally pretty pre-planned: eg today is medium day of RTK; tomorrow will be VWC. A good sleep will enable each better than anything else, i'm finding, more than priming with coffee, taurine or anything else. What am i missing? Am i missing something?

Going Clear: personal realities
About a week ago i gave away a shed load of supplements from DMEA, chocomine, and related cns stack ingredients listed above, and even including a bag of maltodextrin. The latter was because i knew it was produced from corn in the US that is GMO'd sourced, and since seeing Food Inc, i do not want to go there. But more on that anon.

It was shortly after this, i saw word of a new product from t-nation called Anaconda.

"The only question is, are you that serious?" the ad asks. - Where one is already Huge and into working out three times a day. No. i guess i'm not that serious, if that's what serious means.

And that's sorta what my supplement curmudgeonliness has come down to:
what will work to best support what i ACTUALLY do, as opposed to imagining the scenario for which most of these supplements are designed - with a mix of science perhaps and a lot of speculation - to support? Because of course to state the obvious, taking supplements won't make it so, where IT is whatever the body comp goal is.

For me, the complexity is now at about is there really a benefit to taking the protien/carbs (and i happen to add creatine then so i don't forget it) right before and right after the workout or not? And if not, does it really matter? is that what's going to be the real difference between me adding another fraction of an inch of mass to my arms or not? Hard to see from this vantage point that it would.

Getting Real is Sometimes More Challenging than Getting Intrigued
When we get into health and fitness it seems we work so hard to get the details perfect. There's a certain satisfaction, isn't there, to things being just so. The gymboss timer is set for exactly 36/36 for those intervals or 8/12 or whatever. I have been just as particular. To the point of ripping the skin off my hands in doing snatches in a VWC set lest pausing to tape up so i can actually get through the workout break the stride. I must get through the workout without pause.

It's taken awhile for the Voice to come through the noise to say "Why? "

Indeed, what real difference will it make to my fitness goals if i stop to wrap? what real difference will it definitely make if i don't?

Metabolic Flexibility
Listening to Mike T Nelson talk this summer at the Sustenance course about Metabolic Flexibility has helped me start to get my head around the awesome adaptability of our embodied selves. If we ain't got it raw, our bodies will try to manufacture it. If we don't have it right NOW our bodies will find mechanisms to find what it needs. In fact the more non-predictive we become in our patterns potentially the more robust our systems will be - that's just a guess.

So i guess i've gotten either rather skeptical about supplementation or way more relaxed about thinking one supplement will help, for instance, unlock a "hard" workout.

I keep thinking about Clarence Bass: he likes creatine (and that only after quite a period of personal testing and validating with research) and he likes whey protein powder and he is the daddio of whole foods lean eating. He may be a sample size of one but lots of folks using his approach seem very happy with their body comp and health.

Me, i like creatine - and do notice a difference between creapure, the nice pure german stuff, and generics. I like a hydo whey for post workouts, along with a nice mix of non-gmo starchy carbs and electrolytes. I personally tend to do half before a workout and half right after for convenience, and i personally seem to feel better than delaying on that.

The jury is out for me on taurine, tyrosine, beta alanine and citruline malate - though again the science seems promising on those last two.

Sleep that knits up the unraveled sleeve of care
One of the biggest things for me of late has been the difference uninterrupted sleep makes, and investigating that - and how regular nutrition/daily diet is related to that, and the benefits from that, vs just about anything else. That sounds rather boring though in comparison to a CNS stack, doesn't it? I'm not sure it's a lack of seriousness; more a oh let's get real-ness perhaps.

Know what i mean? anyone?

Tuesday, September 8, 2009

P90X Critique Part 3A, Alternatives: to P90X's Diet Plan (or any 12 week diet, really)

In part 2 of this critique of P90x we saw that Body comp change is about diet first, exercise second. We also detailed the specifics and limitations of the P90X diet. Since diet is SO fundamental to fat shedding (& getting ripped), here in Part three where we finally consider alternatives to P90X itself, we're going to consider alternative nutrition/diet first (this post, part A). In part B (the next, post) we'll look at alternative workouts.

Changing Habits and ANY "diet" Plan (not just P90X's)
Getting diet right though is about more than eating less. For lots of us it also means neurological rewiring to support new dietary practices, not just for 12 weeks, but BEYOND - the place that P90X will not go. So we need our alternatives to include support to plan for success. In the following, therefore, we're going to look at two things - diet or what we actually eat - but also, especially, what's rarely discussed, where habit and change come into play to ensure WHATEVER diet we undertake works for more than the diet period. So we'll start with how habit and diet need to go together for successful and lasting body comp change. We'll look at some programs that support change in nutrition practice, and a way of assessing any diet plan to make sure it works for you.

Who is this article for
?
If we're considering a 12 week program like P90X it's usually because we have some goal where we think that following such a program will let us accomplish. And if we're looking at a 12 week program, it's likely that we don't feel sufficiently knowledgeable about fitness to design a program for ourselves. Or we've tried something else, didn't feel it worked, and are looking for a brand new solution.

So in this article, i'm going to assume that someone is, like the P90X client, a person who once perhaps worked out, played on a team and so on, but feels that they are "out of shape" and also wants to "loose weight" and "get back in shape." Or maybe some folks do not have a previous atheletic background, but want to get healthy now, or have simply been trying stuff recently and it hasn't seemed to work.

And if you're here, i'm also thinking that you may too be wondering if there's other, better or just different ways to get what P90X (or related approaches) promises to deliver.

So how do we even begin to think about whether a plan is appropriate?

In a well rounded health program to deliver on body comp, we'd look at three components:
  1. - a nutrition program to support the work being undertaken - that's first.
  2. - a resistance program not only to develop strength, but also for the associated health benefits of lifting heavy. Lifting heavy also has benefits for bone building as well as fat burning too.
  3. - an endurance/cardio program to improve work capacity which actually means improving fat burning capacity. This endurance program can be further broken down into a couple of parts - interval work and steady state cardio work. We'll come back to that
In this Part 3A of Alternatives to P90X we're going to focus on the Nutrition side; Part 3b will look at workout alternatives.

Deliverables: by the end of this article,
  • you'll have a set of options/alternatives to P90X and other diet plan nutrition approaches that will sustain you during and beyond 90X days of moving to better health, wellbeing and leanness (or bulkness).
  • You'll also have a set of heuristics against which you can assess any diet plan you may be considering to see how well it will support your goals
You can scroll down to the bottom if you just want that template now.

Nutrition When Fat Burning/Fat Loss is the Goal
From part 2, we killed the myth that exercise is the number 1 factor in a fat loss program. For a review, here's a discussion of a couple references.

So, the fundamental requirement for fat loss is: fewer calories in than needed for maintenance.
The result of caloric restriction will always be weight loss. More than exercise, diet makes the difference.

Consider this: 20 mins of HARD intervals on a bike burns about 200 calories.
That's
  • two pieces of whole wheat bread - nothing on them.
  • or 29 almonds
  • or a doughnut
  • or less than two 8oz glasses of apple juice
  • or not quite a pint of guiness
  • or 1.5 cans of coke
  • or two cans of red bull

Change one Thing that = 20 mins of Sweat: If any of the above items are part of your daily regimen, cutting just one of them - like cutting juice or coke or a beer - and suddenly you've done the equivalent of 20 mins of an exhausting work out. This approach of change one thing is described in detail at iamgeekfit.

Any Diet will Do - if you just want to lose fat. On that basis you can use any diet you like: Mediteranian, so called Paleo, Atkins. Anything. Just eat less than you need for your energy requirements.

Research has shown over the past two years (example 1; example 2)with studies lasting way more than 12 weeks (some 2 years) that after about 12 weeks, it doesn't matter what diet you're on, weight loss levels out to the same - based pretty much on predicted caloric deficit.

What Is "less" in eating less? Really: one one level, it's that simple. Here it is: eat less - consistently. How much less can be predicted quite closely, too so that you're burning what's available to burn and not going into starvation mode where, initially, weight loss will stall out and start eating muscle rather than fat. So eat less, but the right less.

You can use the above and start your sensible fat burning (as opposed to weight loss) journey today. Bon Voyage.

Individual Responses and Habits of a Lifetime.

For some people, the above simple prescription is ample to set off on a fat loss journey of success. For the rest of us, the principles make sense, the physics is reasonable, but we still struggle with burning fat. And then we look at exercise programs cuz that must be it rather than looking a little more deeply at our eating practices.

We are complex, multi-facetted, amazing organisms, don't you think? all the stuff going on all the time inside us, reacting to our environment, regulating our heart rate, body temperature, digestion, movement, nutrient flow. Awesomely complex.

Who are we with respect to food? So while the principle of "eat less" is righteous in its truth, sometimes, what less when and how can be important. If we're working out, in order to keep working out, we may find that we get our best efforts out of ourselves if we have some yogurt, half an apple and a coffee forty minutes before we work out. Some folks find a coffee after dinner helps them relax; others it perks right up. Some of us just don't know whether eating breakfast or not in the morning makes a difference to how we feel during the day because we've never tried it for a sufficient period to be able to say.

In other words, before heading into a diet of any kind, it might be useful for us to set aside some period of time in which we get to know ourselves and our responses to food a bit better. This doesn't mean we won't burn fat in the process. But if the emphasis is on learning about ourselves and our responses to food first, then we'll have the knowledge to take into those diet phases of caloric restriction.

I'll talk about an approach in a minute that supports that kind of investigation, but let's take a look at one other issue that informs the perceived success or failure: habits

Change is Pain. "Going on a Diet" often involve significant and sudden revisions to the way we are used to do doing things. And when we do something by rote, we generally refer to such practices as habits - practice that has become an unconscious, reflexive response to a situation.

We practice habits for instance when we train for a sport. In learning, this has been described at a very basic level as a three stage process where we go from very conscious practice of an activity - best done with instruction and guidance to refine technique, to a second level where we know enough to be able to correct ourselves, but still not proficient, to a third level where the behaviour becomes reflexive, automatic.

Reflexive responses are habituated response to a stimulus where we no longer have to think about its performance. That reflexive response could be a backhand swing in tennis, setting up an amplifier for a gig, filing messages from phone calls, or getting up at 7am each morning and putting the kettle on for tea, or snacking while watching TV. Effortless, thought-less activites. Habits.

When we seek to change these habits we are ripping out connections that have been made one way, and re-growing them another way. Ouch. Change in itself can cause headaches: the brain is a sugar feind: it uses a lot of the carbs we ingest to keep going. When it's working harder to process new stuff, it's not just muscularly fatiguing; it's mentally fatiguing. Eating right (not pigging out) for our brains is important when we're going through change. So how great do you think going from lots of starchy carbs/crap food to no crap food would be for the initial transition? We get wired for what we do, even when what we do is crappy.

Habits are Wired In. Really. Neurologically, science is showing increasingly that we build up patterns of responses in our brains that manifest in our bodies: neurological actions are triggered in the chemical-physical soup that is us, so there are strong connections between our brains and bodies. We really do get *used* to doing something a particular way; doing something - like eating or not eating under particular conditions - if we do it for many repetitions - becomes wired into our very chemistry.

Eating = Habits. Increasingly, cool research in eating is also showing that eating is habit/behaviourally based. Our habits reinforce our neurological responses to food. For instance if we regularly eat in the morning, we will feel hungry in the morning if we don't eat. This is in part down to ghrelin telling us we're supposed to get food now, and if it's in the AM, that means carbs now please. We can change our behaviours and affect that physiological response. But changing habits means patience and planning for successful, enduring change. That takes practice. Lots of reps. With conscious attention to the new practices.

So, big point, we need to be gentle with ourselves in this retraining - as we would be with anyone we were teaching a very challenging new skill. Consider that most people do not learn how to play an instrument with proficiency over night. There are techniques to master; skills to learn.

Likewise the nutritional care and feeding of our very complex selves requires this kind of patience. In thinking about alternatives to P90X, the challenge becomes, do you want to try to get to your body comp goal with another 12 week approach? or do you want to get there where 12 weeks is part of a lifelong success story?

What i've seen have tremendous value and longer lasting benefit than just "going on a diet" or "doing a fitness program" for 12 weeks, are approaches that let us
  • a) learn about what works for us in eating and
  • b) helps to adjust our wiring (habits) around eating to plan for and support ongoing success.
In other words, the successful approaches mean thinking about nutrition not just as a 12 week performance piece on deprivation, but as life long behaviors for health.

This focus shift in itself may be challenging for some folks who want that lean body NOW. The good news is that starting out thinking about spending some quality time learning about responses to food and developing more habits also goes hand in hand with burning fat, if that's the goal. What it means is that the effects will endure past 12 weeks. For this to work, as more psychologists who work with dieters state, we need to plan for success. Generally that means we have to plan to reduce the brain strain of change (i like that alliteration).

How long does this loss/learning take? This process of fat burning while learning about ourselves and food intake takes time -6 weeks with a plan sort of at a minimum it seems but 16-24 is also reasonable. The difference is, we do see progress in the results we want, but we're gaining knowledge and habits to support that process.

Some Approaches to Consider
Precision Nutrition. Right now, one of the best approaches that brings together this kind of approach to learning about YOU and what works for YOU while getting into a groove with new habits to sustain this practice over the long haul is Precision Nutrition.

It's constructed around 10 habits: 7 about eating; 3 about food preparation practice. A first phase is to get to 90% compliance with the core eating habits for a month.

1) that means you've had time to practice success with these habits many times a day for 30 days.

One of these habits is to get veggies/greens with every meal; another is get protein with every feeding. - IF one is eating 6 times a day, that's 240 perfect practices or 216 at 90%. over say 540 waking hours. If learning theory is correct, we likely need 5 times that to develop this practice as a habit rather than a conscious effort.

2) that's also 2 microcycles of consistent adaptation to a food plan.
A general heuristic in working with food is when we want to make a change and see if that change is having the desired effect - like dropping 250 kcals a day - folks generally use a two week period to factor out other effects that could be bringing about results in a shorter period. If we have consistency for a month, that's two cycles, and we have a great baseline then from which to start to tweak one thing at a time.

And tweaking once the baseline is established is just what Precision Nutrition supports in it's Individualization plan that considers a whack of variables, from body type to workout type to carb tolerance to get you able to dial in your reality.

And unlike P90X and other programs, PN actually provides the tools one needs to be able to measure body comp progress, including illustrated guides for girth measurements AND 7 site caliper readings for calculating body fat % as well as how frequently to take them, calculations used, etc. Nothing's left to chance. Here's a two part review that details the programs very closely: what's in it; how/when individualization kicks in.

Also you can check out the free PN PDF and see what you think.

Likewise in contrast to P90X, check out some real transformations over 16 weeks of real people with great but realistic transformations.

Working Out and Diet. Another one of the reasons i really like PN is that it's also normal person to athlete tested. It's approach is designed to support nutritional needs around working out - all kinds of workouts. Not all diet books relate to folks for whom movement/workouts are a part of their practice, and physiological needs.

In this case, learning about how eat right to optimize workouts' effects for lean tissue building is a useful thing to know.

If you already have a diet you want to try, plan for successful change/rewiring
Now, i think P90X is fabulous because of the resources it provides (detailed in this review). One of those resources is the online forum which has a wealth of workout options and lots of experts on the site who have done these workout programs while doing PN - lots of trainers who use PN with their clients; lots of gals who lift heavy; guys who run. You want experts and many Folks Like You, PN has both. It also keeps tabs on the latest nutrition research, with expert commentary that's accessible and usable. You just cannot get stuck with PN or the PN community.

That said, you may already have a diet you think would be just great. OK.

Then as said, a huge factor in anyone's success in a diet and MAINTAINING the results of the diet is planning for the diet, and the habits around it: planning for before, during and especially after in that all important and critical maintenance phase.

This model of planning for successful CHANGE has been studied now in psychology for about 15 years. It's been studied in big change areas like smoking, alcohol consumption and diet. Again and again, the big issue for successful changing is planning - and having a reasonable plan.

Now, PN is all about developing new habits, and it says you can take each one in turn: get comfy with one, then move onto the next until you have all 7 under your belt (taking fish oil capsules with each meal seems so easy for me, and yet i know some people who struggle with getting down a bottle. So how plan for success?

My big struggle for adaptation was starchy carbs only after a workout, whereas i know other folks who didn't give that a second thought. Take on the ones that work first; use that success to build on the others. And THEN with that base, swing into individualization (which may just bring back some starchy carbs for other non-post-workout times, once what's known as my own carb-tolerance is understood).

Saying that, some folks find picking up habits like those in PN easy peasy; others struggle - their wiring may be further away from PN's than someone who's already been eating in a PN'ish kind of way.

Deliberate Support for Habit Change.
For support in developing new habits around food and eating, there are two fabulous books that are based on that psychological model for successful habit changing. One is called the Beck Diet, and the other is the Four Day Win. More than anything else you do for yourself, no matter what diet you choose, consider either of these books. Do the "look inside" thing at amazon (linked below) and see which one resonates better with you. These guides are some of the best ways to PLAN for successful change and to maintain that change as the new habit.

The Beck Diet: Train your brain to think like a thin person (US || UK), Judith Beck. Despite its title, is not about Diet at all. It's about how to build up the strategies one needs to make a success of that diet. A lot of it is about providing strategies that will support the rewiring of old eating habits and the development of new habits.


In the Four Day Win: your guide to thinner peace (US || UK) the author (another Beck, Martha Beck, not related) takes the concept of building up both an understanding of what's happening psychologically and physiologically inside a person when just dieting without knowledge about the process (enter the Wild Child and the Disciplinarian, for instance: important characters within to get to know, acknowledge and deal with). This Beck suggests four day micro cycles of practices to build new habits for success. The book is both an awesome, fun read, and some great ideas for practice.

The Instinct Diet: Use Your Five Food Instincts to Lose Weight and Keep it OffThe Instinct Diet Fascinating work by Susan Roberts of Tufts around the ways we seem to be wired almost instinctively to go for just the kinds of foods that, when there's an abundance of 'um, they become "bad" foods, but at just about any other time than now, really they are survival smart: energy dense, familiar, available, satisfy hunger, and even variety rich.

The research is a cool way to undesrstand more about why we do what we do when making food choices - especially under stress.



Delving into Other Territory: wilder diets

If you're into P90X and working out - or want to be there, at some point you're going to hear about all sorts of diets that are supposed to optimize getting ripped and building mass and doing amazing things.

  • Idea one: get the basics down first - learn about yourself and what works. then
  • Idea two: by all means, experiment.
  • Idea three: experiment THEN with the best information possible.

For this experimentation, Lyle McDonald (b2d article about his approach) is fabulous. McDonald has written perhaps the best reference on Ketogenic dieting out there. And it is a reference. It's about ten or so years old now, but it's fabulous. For folks who have heard about high fat diets and want to give them a go WHILE training - you really owe it to yourself, your health and your well being to read this book.

McDonald has lots of other great books, but the other two to think about are the Ultimate Diet 2.0, and Rapid Fat Loss Handbook. RFL is a revision of something known as protein sparing. and the other is about cycling intake to get off the last bit of fat *if you're already way low body fat %*

Both of these are i'd say largely for folks who are close to or are actually lean, and have already built up the habits of clean eating. If you haven't these books are jumping prematurely into the deep end. I mention them here at all so that you'll have a sense of when they might be most appropriate.

Indeed, Precision Nutrition has with it something called the Get Shredded Diet and the Get Unshredded Diet (it takes time to come down from a lean gets leaner program and NOT put back on a lot of fat) - both approaches for once you have arrived at a really low leanness and would just like to get at that super lean place for whatever reason.

What i really like about McDonald's books is that in each he presents the pros and cons of any approach, for whom they're useful, when, and how to go about running them. Personally, i like them more for what i learn about what's happening physiologically than for the actual diets (that take up about 5% of the texts).

Intermittent Fasting
A few of my Z-Health and even PN colleagues say that they have found themselves moving into cycles of Intermittent Fasting. Human research has lagged behind on the health benefits of IF, because most of them have focused on longevity, and that's harder to measure in humans than in rats in terms of data collection. But it seems some new physiological effects seem to be showing benefits of intermittently, intermittently fasting. So far it seems none of the physiological effects are unique to fasting; they are replicated with good diet and exercise, as this research review shows. BUT, affect is important, too. Some folks report getting mean and nasty with some forms of IF, while other report feeling better.

Happily, these same colleagues suggest IF as an advanced technique - and by advanced i think we all mean, that doing something like PN first let's a person get to know a lot about how we respond best to food under different types of conditions: when working out really hard; not so hard; not at all, and so on. With that knowledge, hitting IF can be a really intriguing process, and i'd say "real" IF as opposed to faux IF. A fast can be any time we're not eating, but physiologically effects seem to show up at 16 hours - some folks stop eating early in the evening and then wait till lunch to eat on their IF'ish days.

Getting into IF detail is beyond the scope of this article. Colleagues recommend Eat Stop Eat as a good template. My suggestion again would be get to know your food self and then check out IF if that makes sense. Especially if you're looking at working out, challenging yourself with fasting and effort can get counter productive fast. This doesn't mean that it mayn't be possible to combine both; it's just it may be asking a lot of your body to pick up a lot of new habits, and new reactions. For some this may be great, but for many it's a combination that initially can retard progress rather than help it. Why?

Surprisingly you may find that to lose weight, if you've already been chronically under eating and working out and not seeing the scales change, you need to EAT MORE to start to burn fat. Adding IF to that can cause some issues. Now, cycling your calories is a cool technique and PN gets into this in the individualization phase for sure. But again, it's everything in its place: plan for success. You have all the time in the world to try everything under the sun. So give yourself a chance to succeed.

Aside: The Lucky Bastards who Need to Gain Weight
If you're a skinny bastard and you want to get not just ripped but built, this book is for you. Why? it has both an eating plan and a workout plan that will take you there. It's been tested; it works. You'll find lots of people on the Precision Nutrition site doing Scrawny to Brawny (US || UK) - there's a forum there for the S2B clan, and it's great. Skinny Bastards can need habit help, too, so do consider either Beck or Beck for support.


Summing Up Part 3A on Alternatives to P90X Diet:
Life Is Longer than 90X days. Learning to Eat better for all of them is a plan.

I haven't gone through a detailed critique of P90X's diet here. That's more or less in part 2, but the main thing is that as part of a 12 week program, it's limited in how well it can actually support what a person is doing or wants to achieve. As we saw, if you're in the first two energy levels, you can count on losing 0-6 pounds in the 90days if you stick to the plan.

A person may learn something about portion size and eating "clean" over that period, and that's great. But it's not great if that 90 days has been a study in deprivation that gets derailed post program.

Template for Assessing Nutrition Plans
This post isn't exhaustive. It's giving some examples of approaches that i can recommend based on my experience of them both for myself and folks i work with, as well as from the results of colleagues and their clients - where i trust their reports.

So what's a template for assessing a nutrition approach that you might be interested in?

First what do we know about making changes to our body comp (fat mass to lean mass ratio):

  • eating is the fundamental biggest affecter in body comp change, whether burning fat or putting on mass
  • our eating practices are largely habit based
  • changing habits and wiring in new ones has psychological and initial neurological cost
  • the better we support ourselves for successful change with nutrition approaches that enhance change while supporting our activities, the better we do over the duration.
What do we know that seems to be pretty solid about fat loss?
  • any diet works for fat loss as long as there's caloric restriction, though some foods/combinations may work better or worse for some people (in terms of energy, well being, results), at some times, pending goals/activities.
  • when adding workouts, there are physiological effects so good to have an approach that is sensitive to these factors and provides for them (until a person knows how to do that for themselves
  • a huge part of diet success of any kind is to develop practices to support the requirements of the diet. the post diet rebound of regaining more than the weight lost is most often the result of not having that support.

Based on the above some practices an effective nutrition program will support:
  1. learning about one's own responses to food, amount of less food amount of more food that one needs when working out or not
  2. providing practices to support successful and ongoing change in practice - till that change becomes the new habit.
  3. with the above two parts, being able to determine a successful plan to support athletic practice or body comp goals.

With these heuristics, you can assess any diet, where it may have shortcomings that you'd want to supplement from somewhere else, perhaps, and what you may need to make a success of the effort.

The biggest shift that this part of the Alternatives discussion foregrounds relative to P90X is the primacy of nutrition over any workout program.

Saying that, a physical practice does have physiological effects that enhance calorie burning and lean tissue building. Physical practice can also decrease inflammation, improve energy levels, make recovery from injury easier, and slow down aging.

SO just because we can cut 200 cals by giving up those 29 almonds (i love almonds and raisins. dang), doesn't mean that workingout out doesn't have huge value. In fact what it means is there are more better and other reasons to work out than fat burning. Some fat burning is just a nice side effect of building a more cardio efficient, more muscular you which only takes 6 mins. Really.

So now that we have nutrition front and center, and hammered down, in Part3 b we're going to look at some alternatives to P90X workouts to get to that more effective, efficient - even ripped, muscular - you, and how to assess workout alternatives to P90X to work for you and for your goals.

Preview of Workout Alterntatives:
The complete article (part 3b) is now up on assessing/choosing workout alternatives. In that piece, we review that P90X is about endurance strength. We look at other parts of strength and skill for a general physical preparedness program where getting lean is the goal.

  • We consider our other energy systems - besides fat burning which P90X privileges - and why that might be important
  • we look at our other systems like joints, tendons and bones, and think about how a program works those or not
  • we look at our neural responses to reps and how rep quality is really important.
  • we also take a look at a few other p90x concepts like reps to failure and the pump and put them in context.

The end goal is - if you decide you want to do P90X you do so cuz you know what it's offering is what you want based on what you know it's doing. But if you'd like to work those other systems that are also a part of us, well, some help on finding alternatives, too.

does any of this help you decide on a program? please let me know your thoughts.
thanks for reading.
mc


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