begin to dig: kettlebells

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Friday, February 24, 2017

PLEASE - would you Help Me Help You Tune In Dial Up Shift Gears for your WELLTH SUCCESS

Follow @mcphoo How can i Help - i’m asking this all the time when engaging with folks who share they’re a bit tired or stressed, or they’re keen to start getting fit, i really want to help! i can HELP SO MUCH - trust me…). I mean, i KNOW - it’s my research ok - that we’re complex and that we can defeat our best plans if we try one practice and expect great results, and we don’t get them, because the other bits of our complexity don’t get tuned to support the new practice.

Like if you start lifting, how make it possible to make sure your rest and food and partying align with that new thing so you feel great rather than totally fatigued? so you burn fat rather than actually start to store more of it? and then feel frustrated because what you believe is supposed to work - stops working.

It’s a personal challenge to let folks have their process but also offer - in a trustful way - that i’m here if you’d like some feedback. I get a little eager.

Like just last night, i asked on twitter for pete’s sake when someone just said they’d successfully lifted some heavy stuff i aks - so what is your aspiration in doing this new thing?
And perhaps they’ll share what they hope to achieve - like they’re now lifting weights and they say it’s cuz they want to get leaner. Like lose weight really.

And i’m trying really hard not to jump up and down and go (in 145 characters)

that’s so great that’s super. Heh, what about your diet? You know you can’t outrun a donut, right? not that you’re eating donuts, but i mean working out is great, you’ll get stronger, help your bones all good - but if you really want to kill the fat, if that’s your aspiration, and you’re doing the strong thing, it’s really diet not exercise that’s the prime mover there - i mean do you want to dial that in. And heh, do you know how to do that? what are you doing? i know how to do that. You don’t really know me, but i’m insured, i’m certified, i help people, heh just talk with me, promise this is going to be great. C’mon - maybe what you’re doing is perfect, but maybe just a little tweak could make it exponentially better - like totally - you’ll be so amazed. Really: you’ll be able to test it yourself. It’s awesome.

Too intense?

And see i KNOW that it doesn’t matter about food, right away - moving is great. What's importnat is beginning to build self- efficacy. And hopefully not hurting yourself.

What i’m really trying to do is just flag up - well, you can start here if that sounds great, but if you want to have a chat about this WHOLE THING - rather than try to hack this space and DIY it, and maybe get it right; maybe not, a wee conversation could give you view of the horizon you could use to be aware of some more of the factors you could play with as well to get to your goals FASTER and having more FUN doing it and less risk of injury or frustration.

How say that? Or not? should i not try?

And ok the other thing is - how build trust? This person may never catch up with me about this - why should they? they don’t know me - but maybe they’ll have this conversation with someone else who has a wholistic view.

or not.

Oh it’s hard to shut up shut up shut up and not say oh wow can we talk about this? because i really really like to hear what people do, how they come to their decisions about what they’re doing, and how they support this.

And i like to say “you won’t believe how this really tiny thing can make this HUGE difference? want to know more? How you can test it for yourself?" Cus sometimes these little conversations help figure out that there may be some beliefs that aren’t helpful that are interupting making real gains towards the aspiration.

For instane, a colleague shared about her running, and i offered a tip about pacing she thought was really useful (practicing offer a little and shut up) so when i saw her again, we talked about her runs over the winter - how she wasn’t really cuz it’s wet and yucky out so she’s running up and down her one set of stairs at home. Fantastic. I ask if she’d like to look at something to complement that stair practice if she doesn’t feel like running. She says yes, sure (not sure if she’s just being polite).

So i ask has she ever thought about lifting heavy

stuff (i’m actually thinking about the power of swinging a kettlebell) - and she tells me, no she doesn’t want to bulk up. AND THERE IT IS: the huge belief about weights that keep women from protecting ourselves from osteoporosis. And that’s just the kind of belief so important to explore!

Because guess what? that lack of lifting heavy stuff, means lack of muscle, means lack of stress on the bones from having to support the muscle that is pulling load, means lack of need to have bone because we’re use it or lose it systems, means less tissue laid down, means a future likelihood of osteoporosis. Why don’t guys have as much incidence of osteoporosis? more muscle mass, more stress on bones, more need therefore to have bone, so more bone tissue, more resilience. Jeeze eh?

And as for bulky? What i wouldn’t give for some biceptual bulk! Ha. SO i share as well, it is SO SO hard for women to build mass.

not me

I actually finally say “do i look bulky?” NO! comes the reply Exactly AND I”m REALLY WORKING IT! (See? small white gal - lifts heavy - looks well not like x-fit champion to be sure).

Anyway, to get back to my point about this personal challenge.

I LOVE to talk with folks about how to help them TUNE IN what they’re already doing right now to better support their aspirations. To help them get their foot off the brake if it’s there - if they don’t even know or suspect their foot is on the break while hitting the gas. Or maybe how to shift gears to really pick up momentum - because things are revving really high but things aren’t changing. That ever happen? OR folks just don’t know things they’re doing could feel better, easier...

My challenge is i’d love to develop a way to engage with folks so that i could offer this kind of tune up without overwhelming that person and so it invites trust to explore - not making that person feel defensive - open the possiblity that’s inviting. That i’m keen to hear rather than prescribe; that anything i offer is testable to see how it works etc etc.

So if you connect with me and health or anything about performance comes up - first let me say so sorry if i get a little carried away - i’m working on it to pull back.

And second: as i’ve written about in detail before you really are doing everything you need to be doing for health - you move, you eat, you sleep, you talk with others, you seek to learn new things - all fantastic. What you may find helpful is some insight into how to tune what you’re doign already on those fundamentals to get to that resonant frequency with with these activities where they really just hum. When that dialing in occurs, you can build that resiliane, leanness, fitness, as effeciently and joyfully as possible.

So please pardon me - i’d love to learn about your health aspirations and if i can help you find your path more quickly more joy less chance of injury - at bottom, on my side, this is likely a joyful path for making contact with another human. Some people cook for others; i coach and research and design for health and wellbeing (“wellth”). Thanks for your patience.

Thanks for listening. Have a great fitness practice thing today, whatever you're doing. And heh - door's open...literally

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Thursday, August 5, 2010

More Beautiful Swing(s): Franz's Picks of Exemplary Beautiful HardStyle Kettlebell Swings

Follow @mcphoo The kettlebell swing is a foundational movement to work with a kettlebell. Despite it's status as the basic kb move, it's also a whole lot more: it's a potent full body movement that can be used for work from strength/hypertrophy (a la Geoff Neupert's latest "kettlebell muscle" DVD and program) to lactate threshold work (like Kenneth Jay's Viking Warrior Conditioning) to endurance (my own humble running the bells as one of multiple variations). As a dynamic movement, it taps both coordination and these various kinds of strength in motion. It is a foundational move, but it is a powerhouse. Put together with the Turkish Get Up, it is a complete health program (as described in Enter the Kettlebell). Practiced well, it is also a beautiful, elegant movement.

Franz Snieman, RKC TL,
one hand swing
set up

A couple posts ago, i did an interview with Franz Snideman about the hardstyle kettlebell swing (the version taught in the RKC) as something worthy of practice towards achieving that Beautiful Swing. I asked him for examples of other Beautiful Swings. He named RKC TL's Delaine Ross, Keira Newton, Dennis Frisch, Dustin Rippetoe, Jason Marshall and Master Trainer Brett Jones.

These folks have kindly agreed to contribute a vid of their swings, and a few notes on their Swing perspective and offer some of their fave tips coaching clients. I'd like to thank Franz again, and each of the RKC's in this post for offering these resources so freely. Here we go

Beatutiful Swings in Motion
(geek note: sorry this is such a FLASH based post. When HTML 5 takes over, all browsers should be able to see vids without plugins)

Dennis Frisch, RKC TL, Denmark.

Micro Interview: At the time of the interviews, Dennis was on a well-deserved break. As soon as he's back, i'll slot in his thoughts on the swing.

Keira Newton, RKC TL of Dynamic Strength Kettlebells

Micro Interview with Keira on the Swing:
1. where or when does the swing fit into your own practice?

When does the swing NOT fit into my practice, may be the question. I use the swing in almost every training session that I do. It is fundamental to kettlebell training for me.

2. what is the most common thing you would say your clients need guidance on with their swings?

I am not sure that I can say there is one common thing. There are often a variety of things that I see people do, and to take it further, a varitey of combinations. Some of the most common are:

Squatting too much, not hinging at the hip

Not finishing with a strong hip snap, and, or not engaging the glutes at the top.

Timing! usually, a new person will think that they need to pull the kettlebell with with their hands, forgetting the essential hip snap. They also tend to forget that everything needs to lock into place at the top of the movement. On the flip side, they will pull away from the top of the swing too soon and lose the lat tension.

Rounding the spine.

3. and what's the tip you find helps them tweak their swing best?

One of my favorites is that the swing is not an up and down (vertical) movement, it is a back and forth movement (referring to the hing at the hip). As a side note, I use a lot of different tips, because people learn in different ways and do well with hearing things in a variety of ways.

Jason Marshall of LoneStar Kettlebells (a real Texas Marshall)

1. where or when does the swing fit into your own practice?

For me, swings are used as a warm up tool, assessment tool, and conditioning tool. I'm not accustom to cranking out a ton of swings since it would be counterproductive to powerlifting, but I do like getting the occasional ETK set. I mainly use them as a warm up exercise to get the blood going and that allows me to assess how I'm feeling before my workout. I also use them on my GPP days.

For clients, it's a different story. The swing is everything...next to the get up.

2. what is the most common thing you would say your clients need guidance on with their swings?

I have to remind them to stay tall in their posture at the top and not to jut their chin forward. A tap with my finger on the crown of the head or a visual cue usually does the trick, as well as saying "tall posture". Also, getting the bell out of "the hole" or the hike position....keeping that transition quick is key to the explode/relax balance of the HS swing.

3. and what's the tip you find helps them tweak their swing best?

Wall squats and stick deadlifts for most, but it really depends on the mistake and who's swinging.

bonus - any other wee note about the HS swing you'd like to share?

I've battled it out with the CF'ers on the "American Swing" and once they see the reasoning behind HS and feel the power and balance of it, it makes a lot more sense to start and master HS. There could be a place for AS, but it's a small window of practicality and too much risk for the reward. Start with HS, progress to snatches...THEN you might try some American Swings for some ballistic work. HS swings taught through the RKC are by far one of the most effective exercises for any application across the board. I can't really think of anything or anyone who wouldn't benefit from some form or version of it.

Delaine Ross, RKC TL, of Condition, Inc.

1. where or when does the swing fit into your own practice?

Right now, I’m following Neupert’s Kettlebell Muscle and incorporate double swings twice a week. Before, when I wasn’t following a “book” protocol I would do Whitley’s “The Furnace” workout at least once a week – it’s basically dissected get-ups with swings in between.

2. what is the most common thing you would say your clients need guidance on with their swings?

Hmm. In the intro class we cover a good many:

-Not being explosive – trying to do it slowly to try to do it correctly when that’s pretty much impossible (then go over biomechanical breathing)

-pulling with their arms (towel swings)

-letting the bell fall too close to the ground (center hiking to the quarterback analogy)

-squatting instead of hinging (box squat)

The best overall teaching cue I have used I stole from Doc Cheng: Imagine that you’re punching a heavy punching bag with your butt then jumping without leaving the ground.

3. In your swing one might say, from the side, that you're cranking your neck back but that just can't be. What's happening with your head in your swing.

I use the “look on the horizon” head position instead of exactly neutral. And it’s mainly because when people see my “neutral” and they dot have body awareness (when they begin) then they exaggerate the neutral and end up with a rounded back.

Dustin Rippetoe, RKC TL, from wayofstrength.

1.Where does the Swing fit into your practice?

My Swing practice has be interesting this year. I have pursed it in a more GTG fashion 10-20 heavy reps here and there as the opportunity presents itself. I have been experimenting with stance, forward knee allowance, head position, and letting the 'bell float a bit more (hence the higher "top"). The swing has become this year what the TGU was last year...a lab.

2 &3 Usual Pitfalls & Favorite Tips

Depends on client of course. Beginners tend to have little root and we work on getting them the desired heaviness. With that said, the static stomp deadlift with an emphasis on the lockout. Define the end point and the middle tends to take care of itself. My other favorite drill is letting victims swing three times and release on the fourth swing. If done well all the energy should go into the forward trajectory of kettlebell not knock them off balance.

I train a lot of RKC's and RKC hopefuls. These same folk tend to overemphasize the tension at the top and lose the ballistic aspect of the swing. What Brett Jones calls "Ugly style" The biggest tip I have been sharing with them is to "let the 'bell swing you" or Jeff O'Connor's tip "let it float."

Brett Jones, Master RKC, author, start of multiple kettlebell and now Indian Club swinging videos.

Brett has been on the road of late like mad, and sent these through while making a home touch down. Thanks Brett.

First, two hands, then single hand to hand

Summary:
From these examples we have many heights, body sizes and limb lengths, but lots in common.
A beautiful swing is a move that lets the hips drive, for forward move and pull back; that gets the butt back to feel the hamstrings load, keeps the back flat, the neck in neutral. The knees do not move too much ahead of the ankles, the bell floats a bit at the top and drives back fast in the last part of the swing and then forward with power from the loaded hips.

Also, from looking at these, it might be more possible to get a sense of why a good coach, particularly one trained to work with whole body movement, may be able to help you unlock your swing, and thereby help all your movement. Love yourself: see a ck-fms or z-health certified RKC.

With practice and good coaching, you can tune your kettlebell technique to rock. With a clean swing, the foundation is there for an infinite variety of training options.

Thanks to all the folks who contributed.

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Sunday, July 25, 2010

The Beautiful Swing: Franz Snideman on the kettlebell swing as a perfect move

Follow @mcphoo Wouldn't it be wild if there was one movement that gave us a full body workout? You know, went from feet to fingertips, could be used for endurance, speed, power or hypertrophy work, and was super time efficient to boot? Turns out there is (of course - the questions are a set up for that, but you'll forgive me). It's the kettlebell swing.

Franz Snideman starting
the one arm swing

In the DVD Secrets of the Shoulder, functional movement screen guru Gray Cook refers to the Kettlebell Swing as "one of the best kept secrets" in training, featuring it as a shoulder strengthener. When asked by Geoff Neupert in his Senior/Master RKC kettlebell interview series summer 09 what single move he would take to a desert island, Master RKC and Denmark's Threat Modulation Coach Kenneth Jay said "the Swing." Not the snatch, not the bent press, not the Turkish Get Up, but perhaps the most deceptively simple move with a kettlebell there is: the Swing. Why?

The Swing Overview. The kettlebell swing in brief is a dynamic move that *swings* a kettlebell behind one from a deadlift position, then accelerates forward into a standing position via hip thrust forcing the kettlebell to swing up to about chest height, with arms extended. One then draws the kb back down and behind into dl position again. Rinse and repeat as it were.

Pavel Tsatsouline
demonstrating
the hike pass of
the Swing
from Enter the Kettlebell
where the Swing
is the cornerstone of the
Program Minimum

Its dynamic movement really does hit pretty much everything - even the eyes and the balance system of the body. It requires good sensory-motor communication to stay well grounded, great hip work that means appropriate ankle and foot movement, too; excellent shoulder dynamics, which hits the neck and upper back movement, great grip, and overall coordination to make the movement flow.

The basic movement can be varied for speed, endurance, power or hypertrophy by changing the bell size and tempo.

Mike Mahler, for instance, years ago made much of how this simple move could be used for hypertrophy.
The first english language peer reviewed journal article has shown how a simple swing routine in 10 minutes gives one more than standard circuit weight training for cardio work.
Indeed, changing bell sizes during swing sets lets one do "hills" focusing on alternating speed with power and endurance in one workout.
Moving from two hand to one handed variants works the thoracic spine and shoulder differently than the two handed for more joint angle

Aesthetic Athleticism. Within all these benefits, the movement itself, when well-executed, is a symphony in coordinated, dynamic athletic elegance. Well-executed is the key here, and goes towards why Kenneth Jay also said in that interview that he is still working to "own [his] swing."

Indeed, there are a lot of ugly, half baked swings on youtube, so one misses the sweetness and potency of this movement. Justice to this movement must be done. And so to that end, i've sought out the Beautiful Swing. RKC Team Leader Franz Snideman has a Beautiful Swing. It is a master class in form. Franz has been kind enough to share this swing, and some tips about it, gratis. But first, a bit about Gentleman Franz (and he is) of the RKC.

Franz Snideman, Revolution Fitness, doing a snatch lunge.

Franz Snideman - Context

Franz, what are some of the attributes that make the kettlebell so powerfully attractive for you?

Well, the design of the kettlebell is the powerful aspect. The offset handle which allows you to swing the kettlebell between the leg makes it unique. I've tried swinging dumbbells and it just feels awful. Don't do it! Barbells? Forget it....you cannot swing a barbell between your legs. Kettlebells win hands down in that department.

I would also say that because of the round circular structure it allows me to training my shoulders through a great range of motion which intuitively feels so much healthier for my neck, shoulders and upper spine.

One of the biggest reason I use kettlebells is because I can eccentrically load my hip extensor muscles (Glutes, Hamstring, Lumbar Erectors and some of the adductor muscles) with more force than I could do with any other tool.

The concept of virtual force comes to mind. You can assist gravity by actively “throwing or hiking” the kettlebell in back of you. What does this mean for me athletically? It means that my muscles are absorbing a tremendous amount of eccentric force which makes me stronger and more resilient. If athletes are getting hamstring injuries I would say they need more eccentric strength in their hamstrings and glutes. I have noticed little to ZERO hamstring injuries anymore in my sprinting with the addition of hardstyle swings into my training.

When you are training, where does the KB fit into your training regimine?

Great question. This actually varies from program to program. Right now I am doing Master RKC Geoff Neupert's Kettlebell Burn program which places the swings at the end of every training session. So at the moment I am using swings as interval/fat loss tool for 10 minutes three times per week. But I have had programs where my swings were first in the workout, especially if I am using a heavier kettlebell (32kg and up).

I think for newbies to kettlebell training perhaps swings should be the emphasis in their training program, at least for the first year or so.

Right. The swing after all is the foundation of Enter the Kettlebell's Program Minimum. That and the Turkish Get Up and that's it. WIth respect to training kbs with others, is there a *kind* of training you do typically with your clients? If so, what are a few attributes you'd use to characterize it in terms of speed strength, power strength, endurance strength?

My clients range from executive golfer types who want to function and feel better while golfing, mothers wanting to get lean, high school athletes, runners, RKC's, massage therapists, grandmothers, grandfathers and pregnant women. I have a very wide range of clients. Regardless of the age, and the goal of the client,I always like to emphasize the following attributes:

Movement Quality. Can they move well and with grace. This includes a lot of postural training and coaching throughout all movement.

Correct Asymmetries. Perhaps the client has severe flexibility issues on one side of their bodies but not the other side.

Full Body Strength: Teaching the person how to maximize the concepts of full body tension and relaxation. Basically getting people's brains to talk better to their muscles. For many women this means teaching them to pick much heavier objects than they are used to lifting.

Power: the ability to apply strength quickly. This is the ultimate goal. Get people powerful and fast. Real life situations and sports usually occur and very fast speeds and we do our clients a huge disservice if they cannot use their bodies in a powerful, graceful and coordinated manner. The Hardstyle Swing and Snatch definitely come to mind here. I can't think of too many exercises that would improve power more than the swing and the snatch.

Quick Aside, you and your bro are both trainers. How the heck did that happen?

My twin brother Keats Snideman (RKC, CSCS, LMT) and I took an early fascination to sports and sport training. We knew at a very young age that we wanted to work in athletics and health. And I think because we are twins we naturally gravitate toward the same things. It's actually really cool to have you twin brother in the same profession. Not too hard to imagine what we talk about when we are together.

My goodness. Well, on another trait, you are also a speed demon. How has that manifested itself in your life, and where do see that fitting into anyone's training practice?

Speed Demon?

Yes, i had the honor of your towing me for sprints at the first ck-fms, you may recall. That was so awesome - i don't think i've ever moved so fast.

Wow, thanks! I have been known to blaze the 100 meter dash in a decent time, but certainly not like Usain Bolt! Well, coming from a sprinting background I am very biased toward more anaerobic type training. This includes a heavy emphasis on lower reps for strength training and power training.

The emphasis for me has always been on quality and SPEED rather than quantity. I would rather get someone really fast at 20 or 30 meters before I ever let them sprint 100 meters. Why let someone condition their body to sprint slowly? If they have no speed to endure, why bother.

Getting people to learn how to explosively contract their muscles is not easy. However, by focusing on moving faster and better the central nervous system begins to get the idea that it needs to communicate with the fast twitch muscle fibers. I can't think of a better tool than the KB to assist in this process and the HARDSTYLE KB technique is based on power production which is why it is THE WAY to go for getting people faster and more powerful.

Franz Snideman Talks and Walks the Beautiful Move

Ok now for the main feature. Here, Franz and i chat about the Hardstyle (HS) swing. Styles of swing, folks in the RKC community have said, are not unlike styles of martial arts. Hardstyle is what the technique lead by Pavel Tsatsouline in the RKC has come to be known as in the West.

I'm not sure if it's you're favorite move, but it's a beautiful move the way you do it. So let's talk a wee moment about the swing.

The swing is definitely one of my favorites, right up there with the kettlebell Snatch. There are so many details to great swing technique that we could in no way cover all of the aspects in this interview. But, let's give it a shot and at least lay down some of the fundamentals and basic instructions for a powerful and graceful swing.

Franz demonstrating the swing, view 1

The first thing one needs to understand about the hardstyle kettlebell swing is that hardstyle does not mean “ugly style.”

I think there is a great misconception about the RKC style of kettlebells in the fitness industry that you have to look tense in the face and look like some bad ass MMA fighter to properly do a swing. That is not correct. Learning the RKC style of swing is not about trying to TENSE your body as much as possible. It is all about learning when and how much tension to apply during the swing. This of course is a SKILL and requires a tremendous amount of practice, coaching and correction. It will not be mastered in one day, or one year.

Franz demonstrating the swing, view 2

I am still working on my swing and I started using Kettlebells in 2002. Think of learning the swing similar to learning a martial art. Over time you learn how to take off the parking brakes and express more power. A good hardstyle swing will look quick and powerful, but it will also look smooth, crisp, graceful and beautiful.

Okay, so here is list of what to focus on during the HS swing:

Your stance. The stance must be wide enough to allow the KB to swing through the legs. Not too wide, not too narrow. It should feel like a very athletic position for you.

Structure and posture. It is almost impossible to coach muscle activation so therefore we teach structure and position. If you can teach someone to get into the right position you will not have to coach muscle recruitment, the muscles will naturally do what they need to do. The hard part is getting people into the proper position, that is the biggest challenge. What is the proper structure and position to get into? You must hinge at the hips and push the hips in back of you (almost like you were trying to touch a wall 2 feet in back of you). As you hinge at the hips your shoulder will come forward which means your torso will be at a 45 degree angle (at least..and sometime more).

The spine remains straight but not upright (look at video).

The neck position will remain as neutral as possible in the swing. There will be some extension in the bottom position of the swing but certainly not excessive.

There will be an “active Hike Pass” in the bottom position of swing. This means you will be using your LATS a lot. Hand will be loose but the lats will be fully engaged.

The Hips. Once the hips are eccentrically loaded then you just stand up and extend the hips. If you loaded up the hip by throwing the kettlebell in back of you, standing up will be much easier and powerful.

Great check list, Franz. Tell me some of the things that make the hardstyle kb swing important to you for your own training, and for anyone's practice?

Number one is focused effort. Few exercises allow you to focus on redirecting the scattered energies of the body and channeling them into full body hip power. One of the main reasons I (and all of us) should practice the HS Swings is to learn how to groove a very powerful hip extension. Almost all sports require a powerful hip extension to sprint, jump, twist and cut. All sporting movements will benefit from kettlebell swings.

What are the elements of a Beautiful Swing?

Great posture throughout the entire swing [please see 4 elements of efficiency for more on this point- mc]. A tall, yet relaxed neck and face. The Arms should be glued to the ribcage. The KB should be actively hiked through the legs close to the groin. The Hip “Pop” should occur first which allows the KB to literally float in the air for a brief moment. The most important aspect is that the swings looks rhythmical and smooth, yet powerful. To quote Master RKC Brett Jones, Hardstyle does not mean UGLY STYLE. Be powerful in the swing but not to the point that it looks like you are about to have a heart attack. Most of the energy is generated from the hips and core. Your face and neck are not your core.

Your swing fascinates me: it goes so fast from the bottom and hangs at the top, and then it's fast at the bottom - most of us swing with what looks like a very even back and forth, but you have this lovely double tempo.

Thanks MC! I think it's my sprinting background in which I am trying to achieve speed and that is why I go faster at the bottom. If I focus on the quick down swing it is actually easier for me to explode my hips and project the bell forward.

The secret for me is to load my hips at the last second. That means let the KB drop and then once it reaches my stomach/bladder area I quickly bend at the hips and let the lats drive the Kettlebell in back of me. It helps to wait a bit and let the bell drop and bend at the last minute. This creates more speed and power and this means more loading for the hip extensors. The secret for this tempo of swing is to first learn how to actively hike the KB in back of you and then immediately extend the hips and stand up tall.

What are your tips to achieve this swing tempo?

First is learn how to achieve the bottom position of the swing. Hips back and high in the air with minimal knee bend. Not straight legged at all but you do not want to turn the swing into a squat. You must learn to hinge from the hips and then the knees will contribute as much movement as they need to. From their I would practice hiking the KB in back of you and trying to get your arms to touch your thighs. Many people only get the hands in back of them, this is mistake. To get maximal loading you need your arms to reach way in back of you.

Besides yourself, who has a beautiful swing and what do you think contributes to that sense of it as a beautiful movement when you see *them* do it?

This is a tough question because there are so many RKC's that have great swings. I couldn't mention them all here. The following RKC's come to mind right now:

Master RKC Brett Jones
RKC TL Jason Marshall
RKC TL Keira Newton
RKC TL Delanie Ross
RKC TL Dustin Rippitoe
RKC TL Dennis Frisch
(list of links here for the above trainers)

(Update Aug '10- part II - see each of the above RKC's swing the kettle)

I have seen their swings and they are very powerful and graceful swings. Watching these instructors swing would definitely give all of us some good visual examples of what a good swing looks like.

What would you caution folks new to the kettlebell to consider before picking up that first kb to do that first swing?

I would encourage people that they need get some private instruction by the best RKC they can find. Nothing beats hands on training and learning. This is the best solution if people want to learn correct kettlebell technique.

Ok what *is* your fave kb movement and what are a few things about that movement that make it special to franz?

I personally like the Kettlebell Snatch to Lunge [shown above -mc]. You basically perform a explosive snatch and then immediately drop into a deep lunge. The drop is quick and the bell is almost weightless at the halfway point. I'll have to send you a video on this because a video would do much more justice than me explaining it.

And now Franz, please say anything at all that you'd like to about KB's about, the swing, about training, and especially about why you'd get one with a kb as your tool of choice - for whom? why? or anything else you'd like.

I would recommend people to take up kettlebell training for the following reasons:

The basic kettlebell movements strengthen all the muscles of the body in a harmonious fashion. This means more metabolic burn (potential fat loss). It also means that your body actually functions at a high level which is very important.

Improves full body power and strength

Improve mobility

Cost effective / Time efficient training. Get more results off of less work

Doesn't take up much space

Easy to travel with

Very versatile. There are hundreds of variations of the basic exercises that one can perform

Delivers results quickly

Thank you, Franz for your time and sharing all this. That's gold.

Franz and his partner RKC Team Leader Yoana Terán Snideman have a suite of great fitness dvds that include rope training, kb programming, fat loss and more. Yoana will have a great resource on kb's while pregnant, forthcoming. Their blogs are rich resources of more tips and techniques too, which you can access from the revolution fitness site.

Summing Up

The swing is a super full body exercise that can be used from conditioning to speed training. It's use in intervals work (on for a hard period/off for recovery) makes it great for fat burning work, too.

If you're new to KB's a great place to start is with Tsatsouline's Enter the Kettlebell book and DVD. Once you get swinging, Franz's super tips help refine that swing practice even further.

As Franz notes, though, best council, find a swing coach you trust and work with that person to help you find your beautiful swing. We just can't see ourselves. I was fortunate to have Franz look at my swing when we were at a cert together. It took about 10 seconds for him - literally - to cue my hip position to get more power into the hip drive. More efficient movement, better loading of muslces, better workout, faster progress.

It's so worth it. A session with a coach is a great present for someone you love, too (it's funny how we're willing to get good stuff for the ones we love but think it's too decadent to get it for ourselves, sometimes).

Also if you're really keen, doing the HKC one day KB cert is a great way to have a senior or master RKC work with you for a full day on the swing, tgu and goblet squat

detailed overview of an HKC here

But if nothing else, hope this interview demonstrates why the Swing is both such an elegant and potent move when well exectuted, and why owning it - different hands, weights, speeds - takes practice (and coaching). One move; constant variety, full on whole body health. What's not to like?

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Update: Part II: more beautiful swings - Franz's pics for exemplary swing.

Related Posts

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Thursday, April 29, 2010

Kettlebell Swings: harder than Circuit Weight Traning; easier than Treadmill? How can this be?

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There's a new study in English of Kettlebells that shows 12mins of two handed swings is tougher/harder than circuit weight training, but not as hard as treadmill work. That's probably a surprise for folks used to swinging kettlebells, and certainly how kettelbells have been promoted as an amazing, tough, cardio conditioning endurance tool, where more is more. What this great new study does, therefore, is help us ask some questions about studying kb's. It also gives us new ways to think about where kb work might be situated relative to other activities. So this post is a wee overview of one of the first english language, peer reviewed articles on Kettlebells.

There's not a lot of english-based research on the effects of using kettlebells. In the latest Journal of strength and Conditioning, though, there is a small paper looking specifically at a 12 min 2 handed swing protocol. The authors credit this protocol as "Dept of Energy Man Maker" described in Pavel Tsatsouline's Enter the kettlebell. Just a note, however: the protocol from what is in Enter the Kettlebell is a wee bit different than what these sudy authors use - it's looser. Here's Tsatsouline's description:

The Man Maker is a painfully simple workout that was devised and implemented at a federal agency’s academy by Green Beret vet Bill Cullen, RKC. Its template is simple: alternate sets of high-rep kettlebell drills—swings in our case—with a few hundred yards of jogging. Do your swings “to a comfortable stop” most of the time and all-out occasionally. Don’t run hard; jogging is a form of active recovery. Senior RKC Mike Mahler prefers the jump rope to jogging, another great option.

Indeed, the protocol is even less specific in Bill Cullen's founding eponymous article describing it.

Do 10 to 75 snatches with each arm depending on your ability level, be sure that you use good form, dig your toes in, and at the top of your snatch or swing hold for a second. Breathing is important, get a good rhythm going. Once done with your snatches jog -don’t run! - quarter of a mile, jogging lets your heart and body recover, if you are running fast it means you didn’t do enough repetitions with your KB.

Continue this routine for 2 miles or farther or till you leave a lung on the ground. This is a fat buster and a cardio gut check but the great thing is you can always make it harder or easier by tweaking the number of repetitions.

Note that the quantifier in Cullen's work is distance rather than time and number of snatches rather than time. The protocol tested in the study is, by contrast, more specific. It's 12 mins of 2 handed swings. Not sure where 12 mins came from, but the version run in the study is described in three different ways. First, the abstract describes it as "a kettlebell exercise routine consisting of as many 2-handed swings as could be completed in 12 minutes using a 16-kg kettlebell." I initially thought this meant "continuous" swings. But, in the article itself - thanks to Mike Reid, RKC for pointing this out, it is described as "Subjects performed 2-handed swings, in accordance with
the routine’s published description, for 12 minutes in duration." Er, and that would mean? Sets of high reps with jogging? No, because later it reads:

Subjects completed a 12-minute exercise bout, known as the ‘‘US Department of Energy Man-Maker’’ (ETK). The bout consisted of performing 2-handed swings, using a 16-kg kettlebell (Perform Better, Cranston, RI) for 12-minute duration. A 16-kg kettlebell was used in this study because that is a recommended weight for beginning men (ETK). Subjects were told to work at their own pace, resting as needed, while aiming to complete as many swings as possible in the 12-minute time frame. Heart rate was monitored continuously and recorded every minute of the bout.

Ok, so what is not the man maker is that (a) time is fixed at 12 mins (b) there is no active recovery, one is "working at their own pace" rather than, in Cullen's case of this routine being a "smoker" as hard as possible. I'd nay be inclined to call this the man maker, then. More "swing at your own pace, stopping as often as necessary, to get as many swings in as possible for 12 mins"

Standard benchmark tests for max heart rate and vo2 were taken; then during the actual kb trial, VO2 and HR levels were recorded throughout the 12 min swing set. The study looked at just this one kb experience. Results varied pretty wildly among participants (10 "active" men).

Subjects completed an average of 265 plus or minus 68 swings during the 12 minutes, for an average work rate of 22 plus or minus 6 swings per minute.

Ok, looking at the numbers, 12 mins of swings, does this sound like a man maker to anyone who's focused on a "smoker"? Just looking at myself, a wee 5'6", 60kg female, i do 100 swings for recovery during RTK with a 12 or 16 - i just checked with the 16 - it's 2 mins and a bit. So i'm mystified at how non-manmaker'ish (ie "smoker") this protocol must have been run.

Even given that "active men" were doing this, the results seem to have a heck of a standard deviation in such a small sample size, eh? I'm curious about how many times people stopped. Did the person with the lowest score only stop once? Did the best score recover frequently? That would be interesting to know.

Main results: during the kb effort, %HRmax was "significantly higher (p<0.001) than average VO2max. That's a bit of a surprise. One would usually expect that %HRmax would be strongly corelated to predicted VO2max. For instance, 85% MaxHR should connect with about 75% VO2max (see calculation here). In this small study of "active men" however,

The equation describing the regression line to predict %V̇o2max from %HRmax was %V̇o2max = 0.714%HRmax − 4.57, with a significant correlation of 0.58 and an SEE of 6.6%. Figure 2 illustrates the relationship between %V̇o2max and %HRmax.

That resulted in an 85% max heart with 65% V02max

What the results of the study mean
These results show that, at least according to the ACSM, the KB 12 min swing circuit rates as "hard". Second, the respiratory exchange ratio (RER) shows that the 12min effort means that this workout is high in "non-oxidative metabolism." That means that these 12 mins are not primarily fat burning minutes - calorie burning yes, but where many of those calories are coming from sources other than fat. But these results do suggest, that at least in this protocol, this is not a hugely stimulating protocol for enhancing Vo2max.

So again, i'd say that the way this protocol must have been run was out for a stroll with the 16, it still shows a pretty durn good effect, cardio wise.

Where does this KB workout Fit?
In terms of other similarly tested workouts - circuit weight training (see description of cwt here, mid port) and treadmill running, amazingly, it's higher than circuit weight training but lower than treadmill running.

lance armstrong: two handed kb swing

The authors recommend that this particular protocol is good for cardio training, but that coaches should be aware that the HR cost relative to the VO2 demainds. Treadmill work (where speed and incline are used to push on cardio work).

Moving Ahead
The intent of this study the authors say "was to document the heart rate (HR) response and oxygen cost of performing a kettlebell exercise routine that is intended to improve cardiorespiratory fitness." That's a rather general claim to make about investigating ONE protocol - one way - of working with a kb.

It's also a protocol used in ETK specifically, as "a smoker" as bill cullen called it and as a "man maker" as its name implies. That's pretty much an all out effort for miles not time and "until you leave a lung on the ground." That's not, it seems, how this study ran the protocol. That's ok; just don't call it a particular protocol if that's not the test you're running.

On the high side, it's great to see the formal research running assessments of KB protocols in a comparative, peer reviewed study. A recent American Council of Exercise test shows that kb's are just awesome for Vo2max training in particular - they effectively paid to have Kenneth Jay's protocol for VO2max replicated and tested, but without standard research protocols for running a comparative analysis, or having the protocol peer reviewed. Indeed, it's at the very least intriguing that the results in that article (shown in the image below) using the snatch got such different results than the swing - that's in 20mins, with 15 secs on, snatching, 15 secs off, as opposed to 12mins, swinging as many reps as possible non-stop.

Not saying there's anything wrong with these results - just that the benefit of the JSCR shorty gives us a way to situate a KB protocol relative to OTHER kinds of training, and the results are a wee bit of a surprise - we tend to think that all kb's all the time are the hardest ass whopping we can get. And, what seems to have been the case here, is that sure, if you're not swinging with intent to get smoked, you don't get smoking results.

But that's ok. Not all protocols, all the time. And that's actually a good thing. We need physiological variety. Now we're learning what kind of variety kb's can deliver - relative to other workouts.

Looking forward to more formal KB research, to learn more about this awesome fitness tool.

Related Resources

b2d KB article index
Review of KJ's Viking Warrior Conditioning (VO2max)
Cardio, VO2max, Kettlebells
Hill Workouts with Kettlebells
Respect the Fat - the role of fat in energy metabolism
6 mins a week workouts?

Citation

Farrar RE, Mayhew JL, & Koch AJ (2010). Oxygen cost of kettlebell swings. Journal of strength and conditioning research / National Strength & Conditioning Association, 24 (4), 1034-6 PMID: 20300022

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Monday, March 29, 2010

Hanging Leg Raise: With Technique Anything is Possible?

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Have you ever suddenly done something that seemed impossible, even just moments before, and then, seemingly, it just happened? You wonder if you really actually did it? This morning i did something that yesterday felt a million miles away and fettle or another incarnation. I speak of the Hanging Leg Raise.

In this move, one hangs (tho that's deceptive) from a pull up bar (or door jam in my case), and then raises one's outstretched legs all the way straight out and arc'ing up until they touch the bar with their toes.

The Hanging Leg Raise Proper: One hangs in an inverted U - the image of Will Williams (of the Master Class on Breathing in the Front Squat) on the right is going above and beyond that toes-to-bar edge as he pushes his legs further up past his hands. Pavel Tsatsouline has a number of innovations on this theme as well, modelled in his freebie Hanging Leg Raise book (comes with a subscription to the power to the people mailing list - nice bonus (you can sign up here )). But while these gents get on with the business of Going Beyond, let's just chat for a moment about the humble to Boldly Go in the First Place.

Here's the deal: for me, i was introduced to this move/challenge about a month ago at the RKC II - we spent time going over drills to prep for doing an HLR and that focused on what one might only term "getting short" by compressing in the middle, sucking in the gut, sucking in the shoulders.

Let me say right now, that these instructions while percolating in my head did not connect the bits with me on the day. I am not generally a fast learner. On the other hand, when i get it, i get it. This was not going to be a Get It day.

Here's what i felt: struggle struggle struggle struggle - just to get my outstretched legs to parallel - barely. Struggle struggle struggle struggle. Puff puff puff puff.

I would try to do the HLR each day since my return that i've had access to a place from which i can hang. Struggle struggle struggle.

Rannoch of Simple Strength suggested that i try doing the knee tuck (shown left, modelled by Pavel- knees to chest first, and then straighten legs. I have to say that that one just about made me cry: knees to chest, ok, but straighten the legs from there? oh ya. not happening. Thank you though, Rannoch, for trying to help.

And then a funny thing happened yesterday.

Floor Work. One of the challenges i'd been trying has been with lying on the floor pulling against jump stretch bands while doing the leg raise part (we learned this at the cert). Yesterday, this went from my previous experience of "i am ripping my arms out of my sockets and getting nowhere" to "my legs are going over awfully easily; i must be doing something wrong." I did try the HLR after that and got to a cleaner parallel, but not up all the way. So again i thought, hmm. must have done something wrong.

THis morning, without really thinking about it, i thought i'll give it a go, and kinda started doing a pull up, and found my legs going up. I did this a few times. Singles. I posted to the RKC forum to check with colleagues if this was indeed an HLR or if the starting pull up was not right. I didn't think it was; it's not: arms must be straight.

The gang there - Al (who's been featured on b2d), Jordan Vezina, Jon Engum and Max Shank, all gave me some terrific tips, to try. but the main point was arms have to be straight. So i tried everything again i'd done this morning except the elbows bent (arms straight did not work this morning), and it worked. repeatedly. Now why arms straight worked this afternoon and not this morning, i don't know. But it did. And here's the thing: it was pretty easy. The hard part is hanging on.

Technique Rules. We talk about technique all the time being so important. And i've definitely had technique tweaks improve something i've done, but i've never before had it help me go from barley there to prepped, cooked and served. But if anything is an example of a proof of the "strength is a skill" concept that Pavel Tsatsouline has engendered in the RKC, i can't think of a better personal demonstration.

Much and all as i would like to believe i am suddenly that much stronger today than i was yesterday, the evidence is everywhere before me that i am not (though i did just go try to press the 24 just in case). So the only difference is technique - getting the compression of the gut, the shoulder inhalation, the lat activation, et voila.

How to *get* the technique? Right now i don't know how to translate what i've learned about HLR technique into how to accelerate teaching "getting" the technique for someone in a similar position, but here are a few thoughts.

i thought i needed to work on ab strength to do this move - develop more strength rather than skill. How can i spot the difference in someone else to see that it's not about more muscle fiber firing but about technique?
I have been consciously thinking about applying the technique lessons - and trying to practice these - rather than thinking so much about brute strength - so maybe that's what sifted through and finally connected?
and maybe that's the best way to coach someone: help them focus on the technique, chew on the technique, and feel the technique applied - this was for me why the floor work with the bands was such a biggie - i think - it's where at the cert i could feel like different parts were connecting.

The above is still rather fuzzy. Perhaps folks who coach (including myself) are just saying "duh" because of course one teaches technique and focuses on that before adding load or at least concurrent to loaded work (as per the volume of the perfect rep quest). So why was this move different? I'm not entirely sure. But there are lessons to be learned from this about connecting with technique, patience with the technique, finding methods that make the technique accessible and achievable in another context if the actual context (like hanging from a bar) is a step too far. Whoever developed the floor work drills for teaching the feel of the leg raise - genius.

Related Story. All this must sound so basic as opposed to any new insight, so before i dig a further hole in trying to convey this, let me close with a related "ah ha".

A bit ago Asha Wagner, in an interview here about pistoling the 24 for the women's beast challenge, said that she had only used the 12 regularly, never a 24 before that on-the-day test. She'd done lots of volume, greasing the groove with the 12, but the most she'd ever pistoled prior to that test was the 16.

I own i was pretty amazed that technique/form work with a 12 would deliver such a result with the 24, but after today's experience, i'm more a believer in technique-as-strength, strength-as-a-skill than yesterday.

So, best takeaway perhaps? find whatever assisted variant will enable an athlete to experience the complete movement - and focus on the use of TECHNIQUE rather than strength to achieve that movement first and foremost - where there's just enough strength challenge to feel the technque - and then strength will come.

Again, that's plainly not a unique insight - but the clarity of just how critical that focus is has really come shining through - one might say finally. Follow @begin2dig

Friday, March 26, 2010

Windmill/Press 100's - volume that works ya.

Follow @mcphoo Ever have what you think will be a wee workout take you by surprise? That's what happened to me with a humble combo of see saw presses and windmills. 10 walking see saw presses with my light kb's, followed by 10 windmills each side, without letting go of the bells, or pausing but to swap sides on the windmills. To be clear:

1 set of ten, walking see-saw presses
1 set of ten, windmills with both bells one side
1 set of ten, windmills, with both bells, other side
put the bells down
shake it off
breath
repeat 10 times

Just to clarify what windmills, with both bells means: one bell is up and pressed, the other is down with hand reaching for the ground to be really explicit:

from the see-saw, both bells, back to the rack
one arm avec one bell is extended down
the other presses up
align feet for windmill in opposite direction of up arm as per usual
kick out hip in the up arm direction
descend until bottom of bell of lowered arm makes contact with ground
c'mon back up to standing
go on back down.
for me ten times was my happy place.
after ten, bring bells to the rack,
swap sides for windmilling to the opposite side
do the ten for that side
after ten come back to the rack
from rack, park the bells
shake it out, recovery, rinse, repeat

the photo on the right is for illustration purposes only:
get that hip back, mike, lock out that pressing elbow

Windmill Fever. I have not done this many consecutive windmills before, and i don't think i've done this many sea-saws before (i'm not sure there were this many in the 2008 grad workout). And i felt this - a sense of having really worked my shoulders, moved my hips and adductors, and, why is this a surprise but it is, my obliques.

And i feel a wee bit cooked. Neural motor adaptations is a wonderful thing.

You may wonder why this particular combination?

One of the cool things about going to various events in one's space is meeting folks. At the RKC II i was surprised to see Dan John whom i'd not met before. We got talking about my quest to press the beast

, and his advice was to press. A lot. Indeed, his view is that gals need to press more to press big. One of his suggestions was mixing up windmills with sea-saws for one of the press days. I'm not sure if the above is what he had in mind, but it feels pretty good.

Light Bells Rejuvenated. So if anyone thinks their light bells have run out of gas, i'd suggest giving a highish volume workout like this a go. Especially the windmills in volume - who'd have thought?

And as part of that beast challenge quest, i've been mixing in pistols and pull ups - lots of each, even if high volume means box pistols (barely touch down) and band assisted pull ups to get my 50-100 in.

Reminder, too, RKC Master Trainer Andrea du Cane (shown left with model form) of the Kettlebell Goddess workout & ruler of the Windmill, will be in Southampton, UK June 6 to lead the first UK HKC kettlebell certification (more info here)
Hope to see ya there. Follow @begin2dig

Friday, March 19, 2010

Michael Castrogiovanni Interview: The Innovative Fine Art & Sport of Kettlebell Partner Tossing

Follow @mcphoo For many folks, playing catch is a fun activity - get a little exercise, exercise a little skill to catch a ball while moving or to adapt to a crappy pitch or to pitch well for a great catch. Usually the implements of such game play are at most a few ounces (a few hundred grams). Now imagine taking this game up a notch and playing catch tossing 12kg (26lb) to 32kg (70lbs) or more via an iron ball that has a handle on it.

This particular form of catch is an evolution in Micahel Castrogiovanni's kettlebell practice, developed with his colleages RKC TL Jeremy Layport and RKC Blair Ferguson. It's called Kettlebell Partner Tossing, previewed half a dozen posts ago here at begin2dig. The video above is from Michael's forthcoming DVD on progressions to develop the skills for these out-of-the-sagital-plane movements few of us working out with kb's have ever tried.

I got to see this tossing live (way more incredible and very "beautiful strength"y than even the video conveys) and found it so compelling, i asked Michael if he'd do an interview about his own background in athletics, how he came to kettlebells, how the heck KB Partner Tossing came about and fits into his practice. Michael kindly agreed, and beyond those points, we also discuss some thoughts on who else might consider adding Tossing kb's to their athletic regimen.

Historical Note - it may well be that strongmen (and maybe stronggals) of yore partner kb tossed. You know, it's bound to happen: have a kettlebell; a couple strong people. Eventually, it has to come up "heh let's throw that at each other " (thanks ltd for that '30's link).
The ever vigilant Randy Hauer sent me a link to a demo of Ukraniane KB partner tossing hence me calling Michael an Innovator, rather than an Inventor. What i saw with Michael and Jeremy was not as formalized as the ukranine precision tossing, used heavy kb's, and seems to have the potential to evolve into a sport (my assessment; Michael makes no such claims). It seems to me that by doing a How To DVD on this practice, Michael is making an effort to enable others to gain access to this practice. All good. Here's to you experiencing delight and joy in this practice, too.

Background: In what's known as the hard style kettlebell community Michael is a quiet but potent presence. For context, he is the co-author with Brett Jones of the well regarded Kettlebbell Basics for Strength Coaches and Personal Trainers. We'll come back to this one.

Michael also has a Bachelors degree in Kinesiology with an emphasis in Fitness Nutrition and Health, his certifications include NSCA Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist; he is an RKC team leader. Michael's training has seen him working with business executives, the Orange County fire authority, high school football teams, and Hermits at a monastery to name just a few. More bio details are available at Michael's Facebook page.

Interview Proper
Have you always been an athletic guy? If yes, what's the path been? if not, what's the path been?

I have always been involved in athletics and it has taken me many years of practice and dedicated training to develop my athletic abilities. I view athleticism as a lifelong pursuit and it is something I am continually working towards improving. I played soccer, basketball and football as a youngster. When I turned 14 I asked Mark Reifkind (the owner of the World Gym at the time and current Master RKC) if I could work out at his facilities. Unfortunately the age requirement was 16. After begging and pleading he told me I needed a note from my mom and dad with their permission to work out. My parents felt it was a good idea so I started at the World Gym shortly thereafter. In high school I played football, tennis and wrestled. I continued wrestling on club teams in college and I furthered my pursuit of athleticism in the weight room and in the class room. After college I spent as much time as possible with leaders in the industry honing my skills, learning as much as I could from as many people as possible.

it sounds like you may have moved progressively away from sports to more strength based training. Is that the case or is something else happening here?

I have been doing strength based training with weights since I was 14 to supplement my sports performance. As I am getting older I am participating less in competitive sports and have moved more towards the strength training, yes. I also do quite a bit of work for my hand eye coordination, overall coordination and agility as well in order to keep things well rounded and balanced. My intention is to increase athleticism and my ability to move optimally and restriction free in all ways, anything that will improve these abilities gets incorporated into my training.

Your early DVD on KB coaching with Brett Jones- it took me ages to connect
the guy with the beard is you! you taught me how to push press a kettlebell, dude! that's a great video. Would you care to discuss a bit more about how that dvd came about since it's become such a reference set?

Sure. The KB basics DVD came from my 2004 presentation on kettlebells at the NSCA national conference. I had made contact with the NSCA and they invited me to do a presentation on kettlebells in Minnesota of all places. I contacted John Du Cane of Dragondoor publications and told him of the business opportunity and he got on board.

Shortly after I spoke with John, Brett Jones senior RKC and a fellow CSCS sent me an e-mail asking to be a part of the presentation, and that he would help in any capacity that he could. So I decided that it would be a good idea for him to demonstrate the Kettlebell movements. The presentation was a huge success and we received positive feedback for our performance and our chemistry. Pavel, who was also at the conference, remarked at how well we worked together and told us that we should do a DVD. We agreed and worked for the next several months building the outline. We shot the DVD in early 2005 had it edited and on the market by late June of 2005 and the rest is history.

at the point of doing this video, what was your main training? how did it come about?

At the point of filming I had just left the monastery where I had been living for the previous six months. While I was there my training consisted of all things kettlebells, squats, deadlifts, pull-ups and yoga. When I wasn’t working out I was splitting wood, climbing trees, lifting rocks, mountain biking and hiking.

The way that it came about is actually quite cool. I brought my bells up to the monastery and they had some very basic weights in their gym. I worked ninety percent with kettlebells and ten percent or sometimes less with more conventional types of training. My style of training was dictated by what I had available to me and how creative I could be. It is one of the fondest memories I have of training even thought the equipment was minimal.

SO before we get to that one, how did you come to KB's?

Interestingly enough the same man who opened his gym doors to me when I was 14 would introduce Kettlebells to me 9 years later. Mark Reifkind had been telling me about this strength and conditioning tool called a "kettlebell" for several months. Finally one afternoon in his garage he showed me the swing, clean and snatch. After the initial lesson, he ran me through a quick circuit with the kettlebells that left me mindboggled and out of breath! From that moment I knew my training would be changing for the better.

That's cool. What was your practice at this time? still sports focused? strength focused? or did you just trying to get a sense of what you mean your training would get better?

There was still sport focus but it was beginning to taper quite a bit. I had sustained a wrestling injury so my competitive days had come to a standstill. I was predominately focused on rehabilitating myself and getting as strong and healthy as I could. When the kettlebell was introduced to me I realized that my training was going to get better in the sense of more interesting, more creative and in a way a totally different paradigm of training. I moved away from many of the lifts I was doing with the intention of immersing myself in the kettlebell.

How did strength become important to you?

The first response that comes to mind is that I wanted to be as strong as possible so that when I wrestled I could man handle my opponents. If I look deeper, a more honest answer is that strength became important to me because of my desire to not feel weakness or vulnerability and the insecurity that accompanies the two. I guess you could say fear of being week or vulnerable was where it all started-compensation based if you will. I used my apparent strength to feel better about the areas where I was not strong. Later in my strength training career I learned that the very thing I was aiming to avoid, vulnerability, was the key to finding real strength. To be willing to be vulnerable and face weakness is where authentic strength is spawned. The willingness to make mistakes, to fail and to not be perfect is true strength training. This is my ongoing practice and by no means I am a master yet. However, now I know that vulnerability is not something to fear. Rather, it is an ally to be embraced, accepted and learned from.

Sounds like you've had at least one experience - perhaps that was not in the strength space - that led you to this discovery about the vulnerability/strength tao. if you care to share a bit more about that, that could be cool.

The experience that comes to mind is a wrestling injury. I was in tip top shape wrestling five to six days a week going to school full time, teaching grade school P.E. part time and studying some martial arts. My plate was full, my speed was full throttle, and my definition of who I was came from all the physical demands that I placed on myself. I felt invincible, powerful, fully alive and completely identified with my body. At wrestling practice the week before league finals I made a poor choice to wrestle with a novice. I took a sloppy shot, he dove at me, my face met the crown of his head and he knocked me out. I awoke on my back with blood in my throat and no feeling in my legs. I freaked out and began to pray.

Slowly I felt sensation come back to my body. Dazed, I sat up; stabilizing my neck with my hands I went to the bathroom and packed my nose with toilet paper. I had a friend drive me to the gas station to buy a big bag of ice for my neck. She wanted me to go to the emergency room and I insisted I would be fine. I had a test the next morning and couldn’t afford to wait in the ER. She took me back to my house and I passed out for the night. The next morning I knew that I was in bad shape, I bombed my test and headed over to Student health services with a swollen neck and pounding headache. The doctor immediately put me in a neck brace, diagnosed me with a concussion and sent me off for a CT scan.

Fortunately nothing was broken. Since I was feeling numbness and tingling in my left arm the doctor sent me to a neurologist who ordered an MRI. We discovered a herniated disc and was ordered to stop physical activity. Everything that I identified with had been taken away from me in a moment and I was left questioning who I was. I didn’t realize how much self worth I put in my identities, as a wrestler, as a coach, as a teacher, as a strong man, etc until I was unable to be those things. I felt that there was more to me than my physicality and I also saw that many of the superficial aspects of my life were what I believed myself to be. The journey back to physical, mental and emotional health was where my true strength journey began. Vulnerability and weakness became the norm and my lessons became more about acceptance and letting go than making personal records and building my body. I began to experience a different type of strength from a whole, new perspective .

It will sound trivial to say that is a compelling and powerful story, Michael. It's the sort of thing one wants to ponder. How then now do you measure your satisfaction with your own pursuit of strength?

I feel most satisfied in my strength pursuit when what I am doing to build strength carries over into other aspects of my life. The measurement for that is quite intrinsic but I know when there is carry over and that is what is most important to me.

Moving then from this intrinsic aspect to the extrinsic and the particulars of your new practice, at the RKC II 2010 cert in San Jose you spoke of a kind of dissatisfaction with kb's always in the same movement plane - effectively, going between one's legs and over one's head. What inspired you to move outside that plane/box?

Ideas came to me and I wanted to try and see if they could actually work. By allowing myself permission to explore the possibilities, the conceptual moves soon became reality that in turn lead to more possibilities. The kettlebell is a creative outlet for me.

Was that a surprise to you?

I see myself as a very creative person so it was not a surprise to me.

Good for you. That's cool. Dare i ask what are the properties of the kettlebell that appeal to you such that it made sense for this kind of exploration?

This is a deep conversation that I think we ought to have over a cup of tea after we have tossed some bells together. I can show you better than I can tell you.

Delighted. How long have you been developing/playing with less static movement in kb's.

The more dynamic movements started in 2004 when I was living in Big Sur at a monastery. Yes, at a monastery.

Well i can think of few better places for one than on the Big Sur road. Pray continue.

I felt confined in the traditional ranges and I wanted to incorporate more movement to promote greater growth in general and in athleticism. So I started to explore as many possibilities as I could imagine.

Can we do something very basic here and ask about movement? Folks used to pressing weights in the gym might already see kettlebell swinging as dynamic and a wee bit dangerous. So to say you wanted more movement may be intriguing for folks watching regular kb vids, or those who are already practicing with them.

Even though the kettlebell moves are much more dynamic than most people are used to, the movements are all done with stationary feet. As an athlete and strength and conditioning coach, I recognize the importance of footwork and agile feet. So when I talk about wanting more dynamic movements, I am referring to moving the body through time and space as well as the kettlebells.

What motivated the partner kb tossing? how did you encourage others
to participate with you?

The motivation for partner passing came from my desire to progress further outside the box. Once I tried passing I immediately knew that it was something that I wanted to pursue. Unfortunately it is not that easy to convince other people to let you throw cannonballs at them. Luckily, I met Blair Ferguson of Sportfitproformance.com and he was totally into the idea!

The other person that I was able to convince to throw bells at me, AND who has been instrumental in the development process is Jeremy Layport. Thanks to Blair and Jeremy I have been able to develop KB passing beyond what I ever imagined.

The difference between the video clip and the demonstration/performance with you and Jeremy in San Jose seemed to be the closeness of the space. There was something even more compelling i found both in the tighter space of the performance and also, sitting on the ground to watch it low. Have you seen video from that seated position of you guys passing the kb? if not, i hope you'll take a look.

I have not and I will take a look at that as it presents itself thank you for the insight.

Also, do you see your movement in partner passing as demonstration or performance or something else?

It is demonstration, performance and training all in one. All aspects are going on when an audience is present. The degree of perceived danger is increased with an audience in front of you-especially the first time demonstrating.

From an athletic wellbeing perspective, what do you see as the benefits from kb tossing?

The benefits are many. I find that the most important thing that it has facilitated in me is greater trust: trust in my body's ability to handle whatever is "Thrown at me", trust in my partner to do his or her best and trust in the process as it unfolds. Another benefit that comes from partner passing, is learning to read situations and make split second adjustments accordingly without compromising structural or personal integrity.

Some additional training effects of KB passing are increased awareness and sharpened focus. As the perceived degree of difficulty and/or danger of a given activity increases, we tend to invest more of our focused attention on the activity at hand. Some side benefits that I have seen are increased eye hand coordination, grip strength and endurance, the ability to manage load and force from many different angles and improvement in one's ability to improvise to name just a few.

i wonder how we could set up a functional mri of kb tossing - just to see how the brain lights up as the risk/attention and coordination go up. fascinating.

That is a great idea and I would love to be a part of that and see what the results would be.

Two quick questions: i'm betting that y'all would call kb partner tossing safe because you train with weights against which you know you can get position when they're thrown. Is that fair?

That is fair and there is still danger involved.

That said, what are your usual partner tossing weights? do you train with these or heavier/lighter weights?

I use as many different weights as possible. The amount of weight is one important variable of this type of training that allows for so many possibilities. As the weight changes, even though the patterns stay the same, the exercises become radically different. I do most of my experimentation with the 12kg, 16kg, or 20kg, with the goal of being able to eventually do the patterns with the 24kg, 32kg, and up. There was a session a few months back where Jeremy and I were tossing a pair of 48kgs for reps back and forth. I also toss the 8kg’s with some of my female clients, it really depends on who I am tossing with and what my intention is for our session.

How much time would you say you and your colleagues put into training tossing daily/weekly to get to the proficiency you have - and let's just get it out there now that you are all veteran kettlebell trainers and practitioners in the standard arts of swing, snatch,get up.

For the year prior to filming the video I was practicing with Blair Ferguson three times a week for one to two hours depending on what we were working on. I only had a few weekends to work with Jeremy several months before we filmed. Fortunately, Jeremy is such a stud and incredible athlete he was able to pick it up quickly and he also had [RKC Team Leader -mc] Chris Holder to practice with and that made a big difference.

Tossing is also a single person endeavor. On the days I was not practicing with Blair or Jeremy I would practice my single man juggling routine to get better at handling the bell and understanding its nature to prepare for partner passing.

You also say you trust your partner to give "his or her best" - have you worked with women in the tossing? if so, are any parts of the experience different from working with men/women in this practice?

Yes I have worked with a few women and there is very little difference other than the amount of weight used. Women tend to pick it up fast and enjoy the challenge just as much as the men I have worked with. I want to work with more women because one of the major benefits is the balancing, grounding and rooting aspects this type of training has to offer. I feel tossing has quite a lot of potential for women of all ages.

In your experience how is tossing different than kb juggling?

There is far less control in tossing vs. juggling

Nice. good point.

You never know what kind of a rep is going to be thrown at you and adaptation is paramount. There is also a component of communication that exists with the passing that is not there when you are juggling. Tossing kettlebells is an interaction between two humans and a way of relating with each other through the kettlebell, whereas juggling you are relating to the kettlbell. Kettlebell passing is in its essence a complete model for communication and I still have much to learn about communication from this type of training.

You sound pretty passionate about the importance of communication. could you speak a bit more about why this is critical for you?

The reason I am so passionate about Communication is because it is the platform for all interaction. To be effective and successful at life is to be an excellent communicator. Communication is both listening and speaking and to be a master of communication allows one the ability to exist in any environment with ease and grace. Listening is one of the most powerful aspects of kettlebell passing, it becomes more than an act of the ears, rather, an act of one’s entire body. Listening takes on a whole new meaning as all the senses are employed to read a given situation as it is unfolding in the present moment.

What would you advice folks to do who are new to kettlebells, see your video and say "wow that looks so cool; i want to do that?"

Don't.

Wow that will be great for your sales.

This type of training was developed for advanced athletes and kettlebellers. Spend a few years learning the basics before you get any crazy ideas. Strength health and longevity are the goals of training and making poor choices will only keep you from the goals.

You know as soon as you put out your dvd though, that folks who haven't worked much with KB's are going to get excited about this as "extreme kettlebelling"

So a few questions here: what kind of prep would you say is crucial - how does someone know they're and advanced kettlebeller - you mention time - what else?

You might be an intermediate kettlebeller if you have been practicing for a year or more and teaching for about as long, and you have an RKC, AKC, or IKFF cert under your belt.

You might be an advanced kettlebeller if you have three to five years under your belt and you are a Team Leader, a Senior RKC, a Master RKC, or if you are a competitive kettlebell lifter with several meets under your belt and you are a higher level instructor for one of the other reputable kettlebell certifying bodies out there..

Seven or more years of continuous practice and you are more than likely to be in the advanced category provided you have had a credible instructor teach you the techniques of the trade. Learning from magazines books and DVD’s does not count!

If you can easily complete the single man [sic] kettlebell juggling routine from my KB partner passing DVD with good form and in a safe manner, it is most likely o.k. to proceed. Provided you have had instruction from credible instructors.

Also, i mention "extreme kettlebelling" - it doesn't sound however like it has that "extreme" mantra to you - that you're not driven by how far you can toss or how heavy. What is the key focus for you?

I do enjoy tossing bells as far as possible and passing heavy bells back and forth and you are right the drive is not the extreme aspect of the training. The key of the kettlebell partner passing for me is the highly focused state of Zen like meditation that is achieved from practicing. It is a movement meditation and a form of self cultivation like no other that I have experienced. It is a cross between Tai Chi, wrestling, and weightlifting.

Have to say that my recollection of watching the tossing at the RKC the youtub clip just doesn't do it justice. WHen you kept saying to the group to move back and give you a bit more room, i don't think most of us had any idea what was coming - for what would you need that much room with a kettlebell?

I think it is far more impressive to see KB passing in person then in video format. It was an amazing experience to have the space I did and the audience to demo for. I was so into what we were doing that time and spaces were of little concern.

Kettlebell tossing is an act to be seen by others as well as practiced for dynamic strength, is it not? Where does performance in front of others come into your practice? What's its role?

I hope others see this style of training and realize that it takes good sound judgment to determine if it is appropriate for their personal practice. To see is one thing and to do is a whole different ball of wax. I recommend extreme caution when others consider this kind of training. It is Dangerous! The element of danger adds to the benefit of the training and the reward must be weighed against the risk.

Does it feel much different when there's folks watching?

The performance aspect creates more pressure, when I start tossing the only thing I have on my mind is what's being tossed at me and what I am tossing back.

When you're not tossing kettlebells with the willing, what do you do, Michael?

One of my favorite things to do is train at sportfitproformance.com in Ventura, California with Blair Ferguson. Our collaboration is one of the main reasons that the KB passing has advanced and evolved to this level. I love being active, hiking, biking, yoga, surfing, grappling, kayaking and just about anything else that involves nature. I also enjoy learning, communicating, reading and I am learning to enjoy writing more. Spending time with friends and family is very important to me and I always enjoy developing and growing my relationships.

Yoga? any particular form? and how long has that been in the Michael mix?

I began yoga in 2000 just before I was introduced to kettlebells. The tyle of yoga was predominately vinyasa flow, I have also practiced restorative yoga, tantra, and power yoga. Four years ago, I transitioned to a more aggressive and challenging form of power yoga called Blanchard yoga and have been practicing it since.

Is that activity what sets your hair on fire or is there something else that also moves you?

I tell ya, watching you do pull-ups at the RKC 2 moved me!! The natural world and the mysteries' of life along with the depth and beauty of the human body sets my hair on fire.

Goodness.

What would you say if it hasn't been covered is important for folks to be sure to incorporate into their own strength practice that you think may be missing or underplayed?

Squats, Deadlifts, overhead press and pull-ups.

OK, let's go: why each one, and with which implements?

All implements are good to use and should be used in moderation.

They are all full body exercises and require significant amounts of tension to perform and they all systemically fortify the body.

Pull-ups because it is important to be able to pull your weight.

Squats because they teach you to stand up

Overhead press because this is one of our weakest positions and it is always good to have the strength to put your own luggage in the overhead bin.

Deadlifts because it is important to be able to pick up heavy stuff you never know when you will need this.

As we've been discussing, you do have a video on kb parner tossing coming out. What will it be called, when can we expect it, and where will we be able to order it?

"Michael Castrogiovanni's Kettlebell Partner Passing" (as of right now) is in the final stages of production and is expected to be released this quarter. It will be available through multiple outlets including my website transformativefitness.com.

Fabulous; looking forward to it. I'm sure the three of you could get onto tv shows demonstrating this - that strength can be fluid and beautiful in different ways.

Yes I want to juggle for Oprah

That would be fantastic. How do we make that happen? In the meantime, is there anything else you'd care to share that i haven't touched on here related to wellbeing, fitness, what's important to you in this space?

Yes. I feel that there is one key ingredient to wellness and fitness that is overlooked and often thrown by the wayside in favor of increasing numbers, winning and achieving new personal records.

That crucial ingredient is fun.

We have been conditioned at such an early age to win that the idea of fun gets glossed over. The win at any cost attitude is a fast track to burning out. If a lifelong pursuit of health, fitness and wellness are the goals, I highly recommend doing more of things that you enjoy, that make you laugh and smile, with people you love.

Thank you for taking the time, Michael, to talk about your practice and your new sport. Much obliged.

Thank you for the opportunity to share my experience with you and your readers. Peace and blessings to all.

Michael is one more incredible athlete whom i've spoken with from the RKC II who's independently said the premium should be on fun, being in the moment, rather than numbers. There's a theme from the best practitioners developing here.

Will post an update as soon as Michael's video is out. In the meantime if you'd like to hook up with Michael for training, he can be reached via sportfitproformance.com

In the meantime, let's see that again...

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