Sunday, April 18, 2010
Mentor Support: an unsung key predictor of weight loss and weight loss maintenance
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There's one weight loss study that somehow has been in the public eye since 2003. Each time a version of its data gets published, it gets media attention for showing that LOTS of exercise helps maintain weight loss. Now from my reading of that data, that's actually kind of a misrepresentation of the findings in the paper. There are THREE factors that impact weight loss maintenance: caloric restriction (1200-1500kcals), 270-300mins of (vigorous) exercise a week AND (the under reported component) regular human contact intervention about compliance with the protocol. Finally, in yet another paper about this study, this later part of the work is being highlighted a bit more in the paper "Contribution of Behavior Intervention Components to 24-Month Weight Loss." I find it fascinating that such an interesting predictor of success - along with the more familiar caloric reduction - has been so seemingly downplayed in favor of hours of exercise.
Background
Last year (2009), discussion of a second paper (published July 2008) on a 2 year study of obese women losing weight generated lots of attention. In particular, Time focused on one aspect of the study, calling their piece "The Myth of Moderate Exercise." They focused on the finding that, in a trial of 201 obese women ("conducted between December 1999 and January 2003") who took off and kept off 10% of their body, did so by exercising at twice the amount of time recommended by the CDC (center for disease control), and by doing vigerous - not moderate - work.
A less well cited piece on the study at WebMD did make a bit more about the social aspect of the study that was seen to contribute to participants' ongoing success. One more even less cited post at FoodConsumer.org, unlike Time, got it, too:
Indeed, here's the latest version: April, 2010, Journal of the American College of Sports Medicine, "Contribution of Behavior Intervention Components to 24-Month Weight Loss."
Oh, and just a few months before this April 2010 version of the data, the American College of Sports Medicine put out a press release taking "strong exception to assertions [in that original Time Article?] that exercise can inhibit weight loss by over-stimulating the appetite." The key person cited in the PR is John Jakicic, author of the above study and who also just happens to "[chair] a committee on obesity prevention and treatment for the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) and helped write an ACSM Position Stand on strategies for weight loss and prevention of weight regain for adults."
Naturally, the ACSM statement says exercise helps maintain weight loss. And to that end, quotes an awful lot of Jakicic's singular study's findings. Now, that all sounds great, but let's face it, (1) this cohort was 201 obese women, and (2) the ACSM may have just a little invested in celebrating the importance of exercise. They were burning off 1800+ calories with exercise AND living on calorie reduced diets AND were still, after two years, considered overweight. So their health had certainly improved, but if nothing else, this cohort shows that losing weight from an obese state takes long, hard graft. But it also seems to benefit from something else that may be just as necessary, and that's the human expert support.
Telephones: The Secret Ingredient?
Just to be clear, i'm in no way suggesting that exercise doesn't help with weight loss. Recently i've discussed just two of many studies - one on HIIT, one on cardio - that shows benefit for fat loss. But what i am intrigued by, and what's been in the published data since day one, is the fact that exercise and BIG calorie restriction were not the only key factors in getting the weight off, and perhaps just as importantly, keeping it off. While the researchers have made this point repeatedly in the data, it's one they themselves seem reluctant to foreground, even in the latest study. Here's the abstract:
Here's a bit on the way social support with the protocol worked:
This is a pretty substantial result that is intriguingly reiterated in a smaller cohort study carried out over at Precision Nutrition awhile ago (and discussed at b2d here).
To the folks who were "extremely happy" with the progress towards their weight goals, 77% said that they'd had regular mentorship from someone who was in the shape they wanted to achieve.
It's important to note that not everyone needs social/expert support to achieve their weight loss goals. Brad Pillon, whose work is continually interesting and intriguing, blogged recently about how happy he was to carve his own path. And any guy who can fast regularly twice a week is probably just that kinda guy. But let's face it: Mr. Pillon of the terrific Eat, Stop, Eat has a heck of a background in nutrition and supplements, so perhaps he's not the Norm in the distribution here? Maybe?
Martha Beck of the Four Day Win
(your way to Thinner Peace [i love that]) reiterates the value of social support for success in body comp 
goals, encouraging folks who don't have it for free in their social network to go pay for it (precision nutriton - the forum - is the biggie i've praised for ages for this value; the lean eating program takes that to daily, direct contact).
For the rest of us, then, it seems we more than get by, but can thrive with a little help if not just from supportive friends, but from knowledgeable mentors.
And uptake of *that* human support component is, at least in this Never Ending Study, an unsung key predictor of success with caloric reduction and exercise for attainment and maintenance of body comp success.
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PS Please Remember,
UNICK, J., JAKICIC, J., & MARCUS, B. (2010). Contribution of Behavior Intervention Components to 24-Month Weight Loss Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 42 (4), 745-753 DOI: 10.1249/MSS.0b013e3181bd1a57
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There's one weight loss study that somehow has been in the public eye since 2003. Each time a version of its data gets published, it gets media attention for showing that LOTS of exercise helps maintain weight loss. Now from my reading of that data, that's actually kind of a misrepresentation of the findings in the paper. There are THREE factors that impact weight loss maintenance: caloric restriction (1200-1500kcals), 270-300mins of (vigorous) exercise a week AND (the under reported component) regular human contact intervention about compliance with the protocol. Finally, in yet another paper about this study, this later part of the work is being highlighted a bit more in the paper "Contribution of Behavior Intervention Components to 24-Month Weight Loss." I find it fascinating that such an interesting predictor of success - along with the more familiar caloric reduction - has been so seemingly downplayed in favor of hours of exercise.Background Last year (2009), discussion of a second paper (published July 2008) on a 2 year study of obese women losing weight generated lots of attention. In particular, Time focused on one aspect of the study, calling their piece "The Myth of Moderate Exercise." They focused on the finding that, in a trial of 201 obese women ("conducted between December 1999 and January 2003") who took off and kept off 10% of their body, did so by exercising at twice the amount of time recommended by the CDC (center for disease control), and by doing vigerous - not moderate - work.
A less well cited piece on the study at WebMD did make a bit more about the social aspect of the study that was seen to contribute to participants' ongoing success. One more even less cited post at FoodConsumer.org, unlike Time, got it, too:
But even among this group who sustain 10 percent weight loss, exercise may not be the only thing they did to have the effect. These people also completed more phone calls with the research staff and engaged in more eating behaviors recommended for weight loss and had a lower intake of dietary fat.This was the second time this same study data had garnered attention for the reason Time made primary. Back in 2005, WebMD published a story called "how much exercise sparks weight loss." It focused on the data that showed that the women who exercised for 4.5-5 hours a week, at an overall vigorous intensity, lost the most weight. This was the first time the full study data had been taken out for a walk - this time at a presentation at the North American Association for the Study of Obesity’s annual scientific meeting, Vancouver, Canada, Oct. 15-19, 2005. Prior to this, a one year version of the study, with pretty much the same findings at the 12 month point was reported in 2003 in the Journal of American Medical Association. Gotta say, i am amazed at the longevity of this data set. It's a lesson for academics about how much information one can get from a rich data set.
Indeed, here's the latest version: April, 2010, Journal of the American College of Sports Medicine, "Contribution of Behavior Intervention Components to 24-Month Weight Loss."
Oh, and just a few months before this April 2010 version of the data, the American College of Sports Medicine put out a press release taking "strong exception to assertions [in that original Time Article?] that exercise can inhibit weight loss by over-stimulating the appetite." The key person cited in the PR is John Jakicic, author of the above study and who also just happens to "[chair] a committee on obesity prevention and treatment for the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) and helped write an ACSM Position Stand on strategies for weight loss and prevention of weight regain for adults."
Naturally, the ACSM statement says exercise helps maintain weight loss. And to that end, quotes an awful lot of Jakicic's singular study's findings. Now, that all sounds great, but let's face it, (1) this cohort was 201 obese women, and (2) the ACSM may have just a little invested in celebrating the importance of exercise. They were burning off 1800+ calories with exercise AND living on calorie reduced diets AND were still, after two years, considered overweight. So their health had certainly improved, but if nothing else, this cohort shows that losing weight from an obese state takes long, hard graft. But it also seems to benefit from something else that may be just as necessary, and that's the human expert support.
Telephones: The Secret Ingredient?
Just to be clear, i'm in no way suggesting that exercise doesn't help with weight loss. Recently i've discussed just two of many studies - one on HIIT, one on cardio - that shows benefit for fat loss. But what i am intrigued by, and what's been in the published data since day one, is the fact that exercise and BIG calorie restriction were not the only key factors in getting the weight off, and perhaps just as importantly, keeping it off. While the researchers have made this point repeatedly in the data, it's one they themselves seem reluctant to foreground, even in the latest study. Here's the abstract:
That's an interesting conclusion. It separates out achieving a weight loss target to sustaining a weight loss target. It says, if i'm reading it correctly, that eating behaviors and social expert support about the progress in the program are potent factors for getting to weight loss equal to 5% of total weight, or for that matter to anything above 5%. To *sustain* weight loss that is equal to or greater than 10%, however, high level physical activity has to be there. At least if you're an obese woman.Sustaining weight loss at the long term is difficult.Purpose: To examine if eating behaviors, physical activity levels, and program participation influence ones ability to achieve ≥5%, ≥7%, and ≥10% weight loss during a period of 24 months.Methods: Data from 170 overweight and obese women (body mass index = 32.7 ± 4.2 kg·m−2) were analyzed in this study. All women followed a standard 24-month behavioral weight loss program in which they were instructed to decrease caloric intake and increase physical activity levels. Eating behaviors, body weight, and physical activity levels were assessed at baseline and at 6 and 24 months. Program participation was evaluated by the percentage of group meetings attended and the percentage of telephone calls completed with an interventionist. Three separate stepwise linear regression analyses were performed to identify variables that were predictive of ≥5%, ≥7%, and ≥10% weight loss at 24 months.Results: The percentage of telephone calls completed and change in weight loss eating behaviors predicted ≥5% (r2 = 0.16), ≥7% (r2 = 0.14), and ≥10% weight loss (r2 = 0.10) at 24 months. However, the change in physical activity levels from baseline to 24 months was only predictive of weight losses ≥10% (r2 = 0.11).Conclusions: Behavioral factors, such as adopting healthy eating behaviors and telephone contact time, are important components that assist individuals in achieving weight losses ≥5%. However, high levels of physical activity play a more prominent role in sustaining weight losses ≥10%. Therefore, innovative strategies to enhance long-term exercise adherence should be developed.
Here's a bit on the way social support with the protocol worked:
During the initial 6 months, participants attended weekly group intervention meetings that focused on specific behavioral strategies to adopt and maintain the recommended eating and physical activity components. From months 7 to 12, participants were to attend biweekly meetings, with the frequency of these meetings reduced to monthly during months 13 to 18, and these meetings no longer offered during months 19 to 24. The group intervention meetings were complemented with brief individualized telephone contacts between months 7 and 24. The frequency of these telephone contacts was biweekly during months 7 to 12, monthly during months 13 to 18, and biweekly during months 19 to 24. Phone calls were scheduled for a period of up to 10 min; however, the weight loss counselor could extend the call beyond the 10 min period if deemed necessary. All calls followed a structured script, and calls were prescheduled to facilitate the ability of the subject to participate in this callHere's some of the main findings correlating effect of this contact with results:
In other words, whether folks went to meetings or not wasn't the big factor; the time of direct contact that folks made seems to correlate with success. My humble take is that, gosh, this is a pretty significant component to ongoing success. So heere's a conclusion, given that, i don't quite understand. The authors state:
Telephone contact time, expressed as the percentage of telephone calls completed, was significantly greater (P G 0.001) using the Q5%, Q7%, and Q10% weight loss criteria, in the MAINTAIN group (79.4%, 79.5%, and 83.6%, respectively) compared with the NONMAINTAIN (69.3%, 70.6%, and 68.4%, respectively) and NONADOPT (64.4%, 67.7%, and 69.6%, respectively) groups. There was no significant difference in participant session attendance between groups for any of the weight loss criteria
On the basis of the results of this study, physical activity was a key factor in the ability to achieve this magnitude of weight loss when used in combination with improved eating behaviors and sufficient contact with the intervention staff (Table 4). Thus, innovative strategies that would promote the adoption and maintenance of sufficient doses of physical activity are needed, and this may facilitate the achievement of larger magnitudes of longterm weight loss.If "sufficient contact" and "improved eating behaviours" are key, why do the authors only want to propose only workout strategies? Not to worry, though: the authors seem to come around by the conclusion of the study:
In addition, data from the current study indicate that sufficient levels of physical activity in combination with appropriate eating behaviors and maintaining contact with a weight loss specialist are important predictors of Q10% weight loss at 24 months, which is the level of weight loss recommended by the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (14). Therefore, to assist overweight and obese individuals in achieving and maintaining weight losses Q10% of initial body weight, innovative strategies that would enhance long-term adherence to appropriate exercise and eating behaviors and that facilitate continued contact with a weight loss specialist should be implemented.
This is a pretty substantial result that is intriguingly reiterated in a smaller cohort study carried out over at Precision Nutrition awhile ago (and discussed at b2d here).To the folks who were "extremely happy" with the progress towards their weight goals, 77% said that they'd had regular mentorship from someone who was in the shape they wanted to achieve.
It's important to note that not everyone needs social/expert support to achieve their weight loss goals. Brad Pillon, whose work is continually interesting and intriguing, blogged recently about how happy he was to carve his own path. And any guy who can fast regularly twice a week is probably just that kinda guy. But let's face it: Mr. Pillon of the terrific Eat, Stop, Eat has a heck of a background in nutrition and supplements, so perhaps he's not the Norm in the distribution here? Maybe?
Martha Beck of the Four Day Win (your way to Thinner Peace [i love that]) reiterates the value of social support for success in body comp goals, encouraging folks who don't have it for free in their social network to go pay for it (precision nutriton - the forum - is the biggie i've praised for ages for this value; the lean eating program takes that to daily, direct contact).For the rest of us, then, it seems we more than get by, but can thrive with a little help if not just from supportive friends, but from knowledgeable mentors.
And uptake of *that* human support component is, at least in this Never Ending Study, an unsung key predictor of success with caloric reduction and exercise for attainment and maintenance of body comp success.
Related Posts
- First Review of Precision Nutrition
- Change is Pain - how to work through the pain to success in Diets
- Set point theory is crap
- Fat Metabolism - a bit about how it works
- some thoughts on motivation as a skill
- sustenance - it's more than appetite
- Georgie Fear helps us Dig In
PS Please Remember,
Jamie Oliver's food revolution. Please check out the petition for better food in kids'schools.
JO's excellent TED talk on same.
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Friday, April 16, 2010
Getting Deeper about Sleep: Towards the Perfect Sleep Rep - even for parents and caffeine adicts
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This is the second part of my interview with sleepologist Stephan Fabregas of Zeo, the folks who make the device that lets us visualize our sleep patterns. As we heard in part 1, good sleep has various stages from waking, to light, to REM to Deep - and that we cycle through these stages over the course of a night. How many and how well we achieve these states seems to have a lot to do with how well rested we feel. In this part we talk a bit more about the Zeo itself, about caffeine and its effects on Deep Sleep (not good), about sleep coordination with physical benefits and a wee jag about help for kids and parents in getting better zzz's.
Welcome back, Stephan. The zeo is a pretty unique device on the market. Some devices more or less just track movement in bed to get a sense of sleepfulness. The Zeo is going right for the action in the frontal lobe of the brain. It's also a very nice alarm clock, with a very pro web site, and associated coaching. None of that - especially getting hardware designed, produced and out the door, with all the TON of support material that's in the box and on the site, is a trivial undertaking. So someone believes in Zeo in a Big Way. What's the Zeo story?
The device tracks brain waves from the frontal lobe and translates these into representations of sleep state (nicely described in this blog post by Zeo scientist Ben Rubin) - very cool.
Despite this rather amazing technology, a person might be tempted to ask, however, why fork out $250 on a device rather than just follow some tips for getting a better sleep, and just sleep better?
Well that's i guess great news: a potentially way to improve sleep is to cut out caffeine. Great. Dandy. Let's shift gears a bit. Since discussing sleep with some colleagues, i've had a few questions.
Here goes. Mike T Nelson asks:
Interesting. Many of us are so keen on tweaking parameters of this that or the other thing, that we might miss simply achieving these sleep states well and naturally, never mind pushin them, may be the best thing we can do for ourselves. Cool. I do not think i have optimize normal good sleep yet. That caffeine thing will be a bear.
And with respect to optimization, here's perhaps one of the most popular push backs and questions around sleep, and it's about kids and parents - at least one of whom has expressed to me that the vision of being able to get a great sleep - to plan for such a thing - with children in the picture is "ridiculous." Any thoughts for the sleep-deprived parents in the house?
Excellent. Thank you for the references Stephan. Will look forward to the comments on this post.
Related Posts
Welcome back, Stephan. The zeo is a pretty unique device on the market. Some devices more or less just track movement in bed to get a sense of sleepfulness. The Zeo is going right for the action in the frontal lobe of the brain. It's also a very nice alarm clock, with a very pro web site, and associated coaching. None of that - especially getting hardware designed, produced and out the door, with all the TON of support material that's in the box and on the site, is a trivial undertaking. So someone believes in Zeo in a Big Way. What's the Zeo story?
Seems to me there's a great business case study here. Very cool to get that the company has been working so long on this. Makes sense now that everything looks so well-considered in the package. I'll come back to that in a review of the myZeo experience. In the interim, let's come back to the ues of the Zeo to help with sleep.Zeo, formerly Axon Labs, was founded by some sleep deprived Brown University students back in 2004 with the idea of helping people wake up at the right time to minimize the effects of sleep inertia (that grogginess you feel right when you wake up). However, when they built a technology that could help people track their sleep and unlock that mystery for the first time for the average person, they realized there was more power than just waking up a little easier. Bring in world-class Scientific and Executive Boards and Zeo has developed the first scientifically-based personalized sleep coaching system. I joined the company full time about 3 years ago after having helped out a bit in the past. I've known two of the co-founders, Jason Donahue and Eric Shashoua, since we were freshmen. In fact, Eric and I were roommates and lived right across the hall from Jason.
The device tracks brain waves from the frontal lobe and translates these into representations of sleep state (nicely described in this blog post by Zeo scientist Ben Rubin) - very cool.
Here goes: The first reaction tends to focus on the ability to track something that you've never really been able to track before. You have an idea of when you get to bed and when you wake up, but you never write it down. And even if you did... people's reports of how they sleep and how they actually sleep don't line up very well. Self-reports of sleep are very subjective - and tend to reflect how a person feels more than how they actually slept. Zeo provides an easy tool to give you accurate information, and allows you to aggregate that information and look back over time. How was your sleep affected by the daylight saving switch (for the sake of argument, since you didn't have to deal with that in the UK)? It's hard to remember what's happened with your sleep in the past without a reliable record. But that's not all...
Beyond being able to track your sleep, Zeo is about empowerment. Track your sleep, learn about your sleep, make changes in your lifestyle to find better ways to sleep. There's a lot of value in learning about the cause and effect patterns around sleep, and being able to actually connect those things to your daily life. Reading a book will provide a lot of good information, but behavior change is more likely when you can connect the science to your own life. I knew about sleep before I had a Zeo. Now I know about MY sleep, with a Zeo. It has made that daily connections relevant to me. I only drink caffeine when I need it - if I have to stay up late, if I have to be alert and ready for an early meeting.
I think twice about doing a heavy meal before bed, even if I'm really hungry. I know that a nap is a great idea, but not too late and not too long. It's like there's now a level of accountability when it comes to my sleep, because I have to report to my Zeo every night. And that's produced good results for me.Oh dear. You've mentioned caffeine. And not in a good way. And that's already distressing me. So before we get into that, you also talk about these kinds of habits you're developing around sleep behaviour. Is sleep a skill?
I'm not sure it's about skill as much as control. One can't really become a marathon sleeper (sleep for 16 hours a night with 3 hours of deep sleep) with the right regimented training program, just through practice. But one can learn how to make sure their sleep is natural and under their control. The best thing about sleep is that once it's under your control, it can become very a very passive process. The body will dictate how much it needs and when. That's when sleep is a real pleasure and a relief.Alright then, as part of getting sleep under control, what's the story with caffeine and sleep?
Caffeine can really muck with sleep. Taken too close to bedtime, it can make it more difficult to fall asleep. It's also been shown to affect deep sleep. As a matter of fact, some studies have shown that caffeine intake up to 16 hours in advance of going to bed can have an effect on deep sleep. And if you're tired at 3 in the afternoon, a 15min nap has been shown to get you going again better than a cup of coffee. I could dig up some of that research if you like.
That's a good segue to some Zeo research. One study that was just completed (by Chris Drake and co. at Henry Ford in Detroit) looked at the effects of different caffeine doses at different timings before bed. Another study (from the same folks) looked at the creative and cognitive benefits of sleep extension in people who habitually get little sleep (on purpose). We also did a study in the fall that looked at the habitual sleep of college students at Cornell. The short of that - they don't think they sleep very much, and they sleep less than they think. We also have a couple reports looking at the effects of daylight saving changes, weekend vs weekday sleep, and sleep across age and gender. Reports from all these studies have been accepted as abstracts at either/both of APSS 2010 (in June) and ESRS 2010 (in September). And I'm happy to provide more details once those reports are publically available. :) We also have preliminary validation results for Zeo's technology available on our website (abstracts presented at APSS and ESRS in the past).
[That said] caffeine's not all bad. It can be really handy in a pinch, because life happens and you just need to stay awake sometimes. (And I'm sure you're aware that caffeine increases physical ability in addition to just keeping you awake.) However, it's not all good, either, and getting more sleep is probably a much better idea in the long run.
In sum, what is the effect of caffeine on sleep?
It reduces the sleep drive, making it harder to fall asleep, and reducing the depth and amount of deep sleep:
1. Landolt, H., Rétey, J. V., Tönz, K., Gottselig, J. M., Khatami, R., Buckelmüller, I., et al. (2004). Caffeine attenuates waking and sleep electroencephalographic markers of sleep homeostasis in humans. Neuropsychopharmacology : official publication of the American College of Neuropsychopharmacology, 29(10), 1933-9.
It also has an effect on deep sleep well after you'd expect it to be out of the blood stream:
2. Landolt, H., Werth, E., Borbély, A. a., & Dijk, D. (1995). Caffeine intake (200 mg) in the morning affects human sleep and EEG power spectra at night. Brain research, 675(1-2), 67-74.
And a quick insight into how caffeine and alcohol combined can really make sleep tough:
3. Stradling, J. R. (1993). Recreational Drugs and Sleep. BMJ, 306, 573-575.
There is also that study I mentioned coming out of Henry Ford in Michigan. Those data have not been published yet, so I can't go into specifics, but I can say they definitely confirm previous work that has shown caffeine to affect sleep.
Well that's i guess great news: a potentially way to improve sleep is to cut out caffeine. Great. Dandy. Let's shift gears a bit. Since discussing sleep with some colleagues, i've had a few questions.
Here goes. Mike T Nelson asks:
1) what phase of sleep is most beneficial for what type of training. I believe there are some data to show that REM is best for motor acquisition of new tasks. What is best for tissue recovery, etcStephan?
2) Can we push our body into one of these phases for a longer period of time?
Different sleep phases have been indeed associated with different kinds of functioning. For instance, REM sleep is associated with procedural and motor memory tasks. Deep sleep has been associated with declarative memory tasks and is the phase of sleep when the most Human Growth Hormone is released into the body. A lot of cognitive tasks, however, are very specific, and these associations are tougher to solidify in more real-world scenarios.
As for "pushing" the body into these phases. I don't know of any meaningful, natural way to do so (other than what appear to be purely homeostatic responses - doing a very difficult and new-to-you fine-motor task for hours a day may boost the amount of REM sleep you get, but that may not be providing overall general benefits, it could just be a response to the hours you spent doing that task). And I'm not sure what the costs/benefits of such an effect would be, were you to artificially boost one phase or another.
Interesting. Many of us are so keen on tweaking parameters of this that or the other thing, that we might miss simply achieving these sleep states well and naturally, never mind pushin them, may be the best thing we can do for ourselves. Cool. I do not think i have optimize normal good sleep yet. That caffeine thing will be a bear.
And with respect to optimization, here's perhaps one of the most popular push backs and questions around sleep, and it's about kids and parents - at least one of whom has expressed to me that the vision of being able to get a great sleep - to plan for such a thing - with children in the picture is "ridiculous." Any thoughts for the sleep-deprived parents in the house?
Parenting is certainly tough on sleep - but it's not the end of sleep. There are some things that might help. First, for the very young, it's going to be a struggle to get solid sleep. However, working out a system with a partner to take shifts could help distribute the effort. As kids get older and they're sleep consolidates (they're sleeping through the night) it can also help a lot to set a very specific schedule regarding sleep and waking (this is bedtime, and this is when's it's okay to leave your room in the morning, etc). That kind of consistency can be helpful to everyone. Also, communicate with children to set ground rules.
I'm not saying it's easy, but it's not impossible. For more info on dealing with children andsleep, sleep scientists Jodi Mindell and Judy Owens have put together a couple books on the topic. "Take Charge of Your Child's Sleep: The All-in-One Resource for Solving Sleep Problems in Kids and Teens
", by Judy and Jodi, and "Sleeping Through the Night, Revised Edition: How Infants, Toddlers, and Their Parents Can Get a Good Night's Sleep
" by Jodi.
Excellent. Thank you for the references Stephan. Will look forward to the comments on this post.
Part III of this sleep discussion will be a review of the zeo/myzeo sleep coach in use. That's about a month away.
Related Posts
- Part 1 of this interview, Seeing Sleep.
- Sleep - should be the new fitness craze
- Carrot Cake and the Perfect Sleep
- Carbs or Protein before bed for Better Sleep?
- Caffeine and Athletic Performance (can use less than you think)
- b2d Fitness Article Index
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Monday, April 12, 2010
Andrea DuCane Interview: Discussing the HKC and Resilliance-Based Kettlebell Training for All Populations
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By way of background, Andrea is one of the only Master Trainers in the RKC kettlebell training system. That's not nothing - especially as currently the only woman in this group, too. She wrote and produced and starred in "The Kettlebell Goddess Workout DVD. Her latest DVD, “Working with Special Populations," was filmed at the RKC Level II. She is featured in the "From Russia With Tough Love" video and book. She published an article on Russian Kettlebells for Best Body Magazine. She was interviewed and photographed for an article introducing kettlebells for Oxygen Magazine. She is also a Pilates instructor. She currently teaches classes in Minneapolis, Minnesota. She has twenty years of aerobics, weight training and fitness experience, with an additional background in classical ballet, jazz dance and Argentinean tango. She has trained in a number of Eastern health and martial arts disciplines including kung fu, yoga, tai chi and qigong. 
Andrea trains many different types of clients. She has trained a professional baseball player, High School coaches and students for Track and Field. She works with people coming back from injury, older clients starting a fitness program. Housewives and young athletes. Chiropractors, Acupuncturists, Osteopaths and Medical Doctors, Pilates Instructors, Dancers and other Personal Trainers she counts as her clients. She is experienced working with large groups or on a one to one basis.
So with that list of credentials ringing in our ears, we begin this interview with Andrea. We cover why kettlebells as an approach to training; her fave moves; Andrea's own impact on the North American kettlebell scene, openning it up to women; her path getting involved in KB work and becoming only one of a half-dozen RKC Master Trainers; being a woman in the RKC and some thoughts about the upcoming HKC - who should take it, why, and how to prep for it.
o Why Kettlebells
What's with kettlebells, andrea? why is this your main tool?
Ok, so the snatch is only after spending some quality personal time with the swing, TGU, deadlifts and squats. Not that that's a small program in itself. We’ll come back to the particulars of the HKC lifts shortly, but can we pull back for a sec to your role in North American Kettlebell development.
No one will deny that Pavel Tsatsouline is the person who brought kettlebells to north america in 2002. But what most folks may not realize, and that kinda blows me away, is that you Andrea du Cane are more or less responsible for Pavel Tsatsouline thinking about directing kettlebell training to women - his KB work prior to this being directed at least implicitly at guys. - the result being one of his best fitness texts, from Russia with Tough Love (one more folks of either gender would enjoy).
How did you get working with KB's such that you had confidence in pushing for this development? or was this idea prior to your own work with kb's? How'd it happen? Why the initial resistance do you think? What changed to make it happen? And how/when/what let you know that you'd been so right?
o Evolving Path: Master Trainer
Background. Your path to fitness training seems really intriguing: you studied psychology as an undergrad, and did a lot of work in make up for film/tv/video productions as it seems your main gig.
A constant theme seems to be movement: taking dance classes through school and uni; getting involved in martial arts - what happened that the fitness path seems to have overtaken the other paths? Where do you see those previous incarnations playing into what you do today?
How do you refer to yourself, Andraa, when folks ask what you do? Fitness trainer? Coach? kettlebell instructor? what? how has that identity in this training space evolved?
Special Pops. You are perhaps increasingly known within the RKC community as the go-to gal for kettlebell work with Special Populations. First, what does "special populations" mean, and how did this focus evolve, and what excites you about developing work in this space?
HKC Prep Plan Indeed. So let’s talk a bit more about the HKC. This is the first official dragondoor/hardstyle cert in the UK. Interestingly, a few folks i've spoken with about the HKC have been a wee bit shocked to find that people actually can and do fail the HKC. What would you recommend folks do to be prepared for this course?
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Andrea DuCane is bringing the first ever-in-the-UK HKC one day kettlebell certification to the UK, June 6 at the University of Southampton. In preparation for that, i thought it might be nice for folks to hear a little more from Andrea about who she is, her approach to kettlebells, and why the opportunity to work with her to tune one's kettlebell practice is to be ceased with gusto.
By way of background, Andrea is one of the only Master Trainers in the RKC kettlebell training system. That's not nothing - especially as currently the only woman in this group, too. She wrote and produced and starred in "The Kettlebell Goddess Workout DVD. Her latest DVD, “Working with Special Populations," was filmed at the RKC Level II. She is featured in the "From Russia With Tough Love" video and book. She published an article on Russian Kettlebells for Best Body Magazine. She was interviewed and photographed for an article introducing kettlebells for Oxygen Magazine. She is also a Pilates instructor. She currently teaches classes in Minneapolis, Minnesota. She has twenty years of aerobics, weight training and fitness experience, with an additional background in classical ballet, jazz dance and Argentinean tango. She has trained in a number of Eastern health and martial arts disciplines including kung fu, yoga, tai chi and qigong. 
Andrea trains many different types of clients. She has trained a professional baseball player, High School coaches and students for Track and Field. She works with people coming back from injury, older clients starting a fitness program. Housewives and young athletes. Chiropractors, Acupuncturists, Osteopaths and Medical Doctors, Pilates Instructors, Dancers and other Personal Trainers she counts as her clients. She is experienced working with large groups or on a one to one basis.
So with that list of credentials ringing in our ears, we begin this interview with Andrea. We cover why kettlebells as an approach to training; her fave moves; Andrea's own impact on the North American kettlebell scene, openning it up to women; her path getting involved in KB work and becoming only one of a half-dozen RKC Master Trainers; being a woman in the RKC and some thoughts about the upcoming HKC - who should take it, why, and how to prep for it.
o Why Kettlebells
What's with kettlebells, andrea? why is this your main tool?
First, Kettlebell training is the most efficient and effective training out there. It easily addresses and accomplishes most health, fitness and athletic goals.In your June 2009 Kettlebell Secretes interview with Geoff Nuepert, you suggested that everyone - all ages, gender, ability - should should deadlift and snatch with a kettlebell. Why?
The dead lift is already in the course as a prep drill. The kettlebell deadlift is relatively easy to do, requires very little space and equipment. The deadlift is a basic, essential movement pattern everyone performs each and every day of their life, from the time they learn to stand upright to end of their life. Problem is people aren't moving as efficiently and safely as they should.Ok, makes sense on the DL, and it's in the HKC, the certification course you're doing in the UK June 6 at the University of Southampton. The snatch, however, is not in the course - that's the RKC. The main moves in the HKC are the swing, the turkish get up, and the goblet squat...
We, as a society have "forgotten" how to move from our hips and use our glutes and legs to lift, squat, sit, run, jump etc. We are “sitters”. We spend nearly every waking hour sitting, from driving to work to sitting at a desk at work to sitting in front of the TV at the end of the day. The physical toll it is taking on our bodies is evident in the epidemic health problems facing all industrialized countries today.
Why focus on the deadlift? Well it strengthens all the lower and back core muscles we need to move properly. It teaches us how to move safely and not use our backs. It strengthens the butt (and who doesn’t want a nice shapely derriere!), which is the “engine” and power source of our bodies.
I have a saying, “Big butt – healthy back”, ok, I’m talking about muscle here not the other soft tissue☺ Seriously, I come from a family of “no-butt’s” and I work very hard to get and keep a butt!
By the way, there are many ways to do deadlifts. You can make them easier for a de-conditioned person by having them place the KB on a box or platform, thereby limiting the depth and range of motion. You can challenge their core and stability strength by doing suitcase dl’s (one kb on one side). Or have them stand on a box if they’re strong and flexible and perform the dl lower than the floor.
The Swing is the natural progression of the deadlift. Plus, of course, it has the added advantage of adding the cardio/fat-burning element (that takes care of the “soft-tissue” butt). So for those looking for fat loss the swing should be your go-to exercise. It should be the foundation of your training.o Revolutionary
The swing is also for every athlete of every sport. For Hardstyle RKC, our idea of sports specific training is: SWINGS.
The snatch is the next progression of the swing. It incorporates more upper body and because the arc of the moving kettlebell is greater than the swing, there is more load and intensity per every rep which leads to even greater benefits.
Why kettlebell snatches? Again, it requires little equipment, little space, and is fairly easy to learn once the basics are down. Kettlebells are simple, efficient and effective at power generation and cardio endurance, and fat loss. The Snatch is the Czar of all kettlebell lifts.
There are many fun and glamorous kettlebell exercises out there, but working the deadlifts, swings and Turkish Getups should be your bread and butter. The snatch should be part of everyone’s conditioning program, once you have the form down perfectly.
Ok, so the snatch is only after spending some quality personal time with the swing, TGU, deadlifts and squats. Not that that's a small program in itself. We’ll come back to the particulars of the HKC lifts shortly, but can we pull back for a sec to your role in North American Kettlebell development.
No one will deny that Pavel Tsatsouline is the person who brought kettlebells to north america in 2002. But what most folks may not realize, and that kinda blows me away, is that you Andrea du Cane are more or less responsible for Pavel Tsatsouline thinking about directing kettlebell training to women - his KB work prior to this being directed at least implicitly at guys. - the result being one of his best fitness texts, from Russia with Tough Love (one more folks of either gender would enjoy).How did you get working with KB's such that you had confidence in pushing for this development? or was this idea prior to your own work with kb's? How'd it happen? Why the initial resistance do you think? What changed to make it happen? And how/when/what let you know that you'd been so right?
When John [du Cane, Dragon Door Publisher] and I first began working with Pavel, the products were aimed towards a fairly hardcore, extreme group of men. The first five books were not about kettlebells. It took some time for Pavel to write a book on Kettlebells training.
While shooting of the RKC book and DVD, I was completely blown away by kettlebells. I immediately saw the draw for women. It’s advanced pilates,…… yoga with weights…. fat burning… you could do it at home while the kids napped or did homework. You could do it at the office. You could get a full-body complete workout down in 10-20 minutes! It was like a working mothers dream come true! The hard part was convincing John and Pavel that there was a market out there and then how to market it to women (and de-conditioned populations).
It’s taken a few years, but with every RKC there are more and more women attending, more personal trainers who have the foresight of wanting to find the best system for their clients. Yes, you could say we have moved into the mainstream. You can even find cheap knock-offs at Target Stores. In my opinion, this is a good thing; kettlebell awareness is reaching many more people. In my world everyone will be swinging kettlebells, starting in grade school.
o Evolving Path: Master Trainer
Background. Your path to fitness training seems really intriguing: you studied psychology as an undergrad, and did a lot of work in make up for film/tv/video productions as it seems your main gig.A constant theme seems to be movement: taking dance classes through school and uni; getting involved in martial arts - what happened that the fitness path seems to have overtaken the other paths? Where do you see those previous incarnations playing into what you do today?
I think I define the term “late bloomer”. I was not athletic as a child. I was small, skinny, weak. I couldn’t run fast or throw a ball. I remember distinctly being in 3 grade and not only being the last one chosen for kickball, but the team captains would say “ No, you can have Andrea, the other replied, No you take her I don’t want her”. Seriously! The only thing I could do was hang from the bar. I got the school record for the flex-arm hang; I think I made it close to a minute.Beyond master trainer in the RKC - what other formal or informal fitness training have you undertaken, and why those choices?
I discovered dancing as a senior in high school and never looked back. I became obsessed with it. It was my refuge from the pressures of being a teenager who had lost her mother 2 years before. From classical ballet I discovered jazz dancing, aerobics (yes, I’m embarrassed to say), weight training and finally martial arts. With each new movement I learned, the stronger and more athletic I became. In fact, I discovered I have a gift for learning movement fast. I realized I was pretty coordinated. But I still needed to develop my strength. I’ve loose and weak joints and connective tissue genetically, so finding kettlebell training has saved my health and life.
I credit my hardcore martial arts training for developing the mental toughness needed to truly succeed. It also gave me a wiry strength. It taught me about power generation and that it’s all about technique. Good technique will always trump brute strength.
My favorite part of my martial art practice was weapons practice and the circular forms. I liked becoming “one” with the weapon. And I liked the flowing, yet powerful energy that comes from the softer circular styles of martial arts.
My years in the film/video world has given me a problem-solving way of thinking and operating. I think I use that with my clients and instructing. I feel I have been able to contribute to the high production values of all our Dragon Door products.
I have completed the 4 levels of Z-health. Taken the CK-FMS, I have done a TRX course and plan on taking the upcoming Indian Clubs workshop. I just completed an on-line Functional Medicine course last year. I am also trained in Pilates. I use something from every workshop or certification I’ve taken. I will continue to take course and learn. These are not including all the martial arts workshops I have taken.You are one of only a few Master Trainers on the planet in the RKC. Not only are you (a) the only woman at that rank, you're also (b) perhaps the most different in terms of profile from the rest of the Master Trainers's, who have some kind of Lift Heavy Stuff A Lot backgrounds…
I do have a different background from some of the other Masters. First, I am a women and not into performing “feats of super human strength”. My background is dance and pilates with marial arts. I’m in it for the long haul, I believe in being healthy, fit and agile well into old age. I have seen and met so many messed up broken people and yes KB's can rehab and help fix so many physical problems, but I’m trying to stay healthy by training SMART.
So, what is Master Trainer, what does it mean, when were you appointed a Master Trainer, and what do you think that recognizes about your approach to practice in the RKC - the similarities and the differences among the rest?I think I represent a healthy, sensible balanced way of life and training… or at least I am striving for that. I think there are a lot of men and women who can relate to that goal. I’m not trying to break any records, I’m not trying to lift the most weight, I want to be able to move like a teenager, I want to be a strong and graceful dancer and athlete.
Master Instructor? (This is very difficult to answer… not sure I can get to in-depth)o Identity
I think it was going on 3 years when Pavel created the Master Instructor titles. Honestly, I’m not very good with dates [approx 2005/6]. I think Pavel is trying to create a system whereby those that teach the teachers have the experience, talent and beliefs of what makes an RKC.
In my mind what makes a Master RKC is the ability to put yourself second to good of the RKC, your RKC candidates and students. It’s in promoting and encouraging the growth of the system through example and highly developed teaching skills. It’s by leading by example. I truly believe in the “quiet professional”, of being grateful and humble for everything I have learned and continue to learn. I cannot express the gratitude I feel and the knowledge of how lucky I am to be able to call Pavel a friend and mentor.
How do you refer to yourself, Andraa, when folks ask what you do? Fitness trainer? Coach? kettlebell instructor? what? how has that identity in this training space evolved?
Oh boy, that’s are hard one! I’m a bit ADD as anyone who knows me will agree. I will generally refer to myself as a Master Kettlebell Instructor. But there are still so many people who have no idea what that is, sometimes I’ll just say trainer.
Special Populations can be anyone who is seriously overweight, coming back from injury, elderly or severely de-conditioned. Which really is about 75-85% of the population roughly. So talk about potential market! Seriously, with the aging baby boomer generation and the TV/computer addicted youth we have unlimited supply of potential clients.Being a Gal in the RKC. Ok, let's get it out there: Andrea, you are a petit gal. You're an adult, not a kid, and to be explicit, as we've said before , a Woman. What's your experience like when dealing with the let's say more macho side of an RKC course. Talking with Rannoch Donald about this upcoming cert, he said that you were his team lead in 2007, thought you were great, and started referring to you as Andrea du Pain. (visions of Mr. Miagi come to mind)?
I think I started out interested in this population because of my pilates training. I finished the advanced reformer and mat training just before or around the same time I was beginning my kettlebell training. I guess I saw the potential and in the beginning of the kettelbell movement. NO one, I mean no one was interested in that group of people. It was all about pressing the largest amount of weight, bending thick nails, working with the military and special ops, you know all the cool guy stuff. Back then the Get up was just that “ get up any way you can safely holding a KB over your head”.
As the saying goes: We’ve come a long way baby!
I also seemed to attract a lot of clients with “issues”. I saw the need and saw how kettlebells could really help these people. In fact, I believe everyone CAN and SHOULD use kettlebells in some version to stay healthy or get back on track.
I have often thought my job in this life is to break the ceilings and boundaries set up for women. I was the first-born girl and had to break a few rules and give some gray hairs to my poor old dad. I did the hard work so those following in my footsteps (including my sister) would have it easier.Andrea you will be leading the UK's first HKC June 6 at the University of Southampton. Besides this, however, you have real ties with the UK and travel here regularly.
The kettlebell world is a man’s world, sorry but it’s true. I’ve done a lot to open the doors for women. It’s not always been easy. I know many of the gals who have assisted at RKC’s can agree it’s hard sometimes to get the respect we deserve. I have been called a lot of names (not printable here). I’ve had to exaggerate the tough part, because I thought that was the only way to get the guys to respect me.
Let’s face it when a women is tough she is considered a b_t__h. when a guy’s tough he’s a “man”. If I’m caring and soft … I’m too weak. So I straddle a fine line between letting the compassion come out and being tough. And let’s face it; in many ways women are way tougher than men!
It was in Denmark, I had Rannoch Donald on my team and he coined the name Team Du Pain, which I still use today. I tell you that was one heck of a great group of men! I loved every minute of training them. I have to say I do feel a little like a mother hen at every RKC.
I take it very seriously and personally to help every candidate achieve their goal to become an RKC.
My in-laws live in Buckinghamshire. I come to visit once or twice a year. I love the UK and I love the people. I really would like to see the RKC grow in the UK. I think the time is now, I think by holding an HKC we are on the road to develop a large community of RKC trainers. First the Denmark, Hungary, Italy, now the UK and then the rest of the world!o HKC Redux
HKC Prep Plan Indeed. So let’s talk a bit more about the HKC. This is the first official dragondoor/hardstyle cert in the UK. Interestingly, a few folks i've spoken with about the HKC have been a wee bit shocked to find that people actually can and do fail the HKC. What would you recommend folks do to be prepared for this course?
The HKC like the RKC is a serious certification. This is NOT a typical fitness workshop: walk in the park, show up and receive your certificate. You had better come prepared. The HKC’s have a 10-30 fail rate. The RKC’s have I believe an average 30% fail rate. You should be already swinging those kb’s and working on your Turkish getups. If possible find a RKC near you and take a few privates or classes [UK RKC list here]. Have your form checked. It’s great to get a couple dvd’s but you should still visit a local RKC to get checked out. Also, make sure you work on the pull-up, flexed arm hang test. If you fail, you fail the course. Lastly, practice teaching friends and family ANY kind of movement so you’re used to demonstrating and talking people through something.Why Take the HKC in the UK? In the UK right now there are a number of certs available that teach a dozen or more KB moves. Why would someone take a one day cert that does effectively three moves, and that's it? Why will these individuals who want to learn kb's or trainers who want to add kb's to work with their clients be better served by what seems like such a limited program?
By the way, if you do fail the course it’s not the end of the world you have 3 months to send me a video or private You Tube of your retest.
Earlier in this conversation I said that if all people learned to do was a good swing they’d be on their way to their goals. Believe me, it is not easy to learn a proper swing; you can spend an entire day on it if you had the time. The Swing, the TGU and goblet squat. Those 3 drills embody all the principles of our Hard Style system. With just these 3 drills (plus the dl) you are learning the basis for the RKC. Only after mastering those exercises should you consider moving on to any of the other lifts.
You will not only learn how to do them correctly, you will get the TOOLS you need to teach them to others. As you will discover it is not so easy to teach the correct form, you will need and use every tool in your box at some time or other.Can we take a wee jag at this point just to go over what HardStyle actually means in the context of the RKC system being a School of Strength etc - i've heard that Hard Style as a term comes from karate?
Can you unpack this a bit more, as there is a considerable Girovy Sport community in the UK and this is possibly their only experience of KB training, where they would find discussion of max tension for all swings, say, kinda weird. Or max tension for their Long Cycle not very helpful and rather fatiguing. Same tool, different context. Those differences can get lost...RKC is a "hard style" of kettlebell training that originated from the spec ops of the Soviet Union. As in martial arts, the kettlebell hard style chooses "power production over power conservation." (Randy Hauer, RKC TL). It uses the ability to use total body compression to produce strength and power. To sum up, RKC hardstyle, is "maximual acceleration in quick lifts and maximal tension in slow lifts. Power over efficiency.
Maxium tension during slow [heavy] lifts, helps you press heavier - SAFER. The use of compression and tension protects the back and shoulder while using your entire body to press. The advantage to using your whole body and using max tension is to generate more power and force, which translates into more total body conditioning as well as getting just plain stronger.Audience for HKC? For some folks the HKC will be perfect as a stand-alone certification, either as an individual cert or as the first steps to feel solid about adding KB’s into their training program. Could you say a bit about why/how the HKC works for the individual who mayn't be interested in formal teaching?
When using lighter weights, such as a 12kg, you do not need to use max tension. In fact, you shouldn't, too much high tension when not necessary can lead to getting slow and tight. But, in order to press heavy - SAFELY you need to use max tension and compression techniques.
As I mentioned the other side of the coin of Hard Style is max acceleration for quick lifts. If all you do is high compression/ max tension work, you will get slower. Hard Style's use of fast... is not weak and/or "efficient", it's explosive and powerful which only comes from being able to utilize max tension on slow lifts.
I am not an expert on GS and do not practice it myself, but from my understanding the goal is EFFICIENCY, in order to put up as much /Volume/ within a specific amount of time. It is apples and oranges. Different goals that require different technique. But, take a look at your average client. What are their goals? Fat loss, muscle gain, better mobility/flexibility, faster, better over all energy, strong cardiovascular system. Those goals will ALL be met by Hard Style training.
The HKC is geared toward teaching. But I would have to say I have about 20% of the people take the HKC for personal reasons only. The first priority of the workshop is to make sure every participant can perform all the drills correctly – or better yet perfectly.
From there we go deeper to learn the tools and skills to teach it.
In my experience, having the ability to teach something makes you better at it too. You develop a deeper understanding of the movement and system that you can immediately internalize into your own practice. It is in many cases a “life-changing” day, a deeply personal experience you’ll take with you for years to come.Prep for RKC For folks who may be thinking about the RKC, going onto the three day, intensive course, would you recommend they do this course before doing an RKC? if so, why? and if so how much in advance of doing an RKC?
I would HIGHLY recommend people do the HKC course before the RKC. First of all it is our entry-level course, it will help prepare you for the RKC. Second, if you sign up for any RKC within a year of taking and passing the HKC (you just have to sign up and pay for the RKC you don’t have to take a course), Dragon Door will deduct the cost of the HKC out of the RKC. Which means you get the HKC for free. It’s like getting two courses for the price of one.Is there anything else you'd like to say about the HKC and prep for the HKC?
I would just like to add the HKC is a taste of the RKC. Yet, it is a stand-alone certification. It is an eye opening, mind blowing experience and it will leave you wanting more…. Wanting the full RKC experience and certification!Thank you, Andrea! Getting even more jazzed about the UK HKC now.
If you'd like more information on the June 6 UK HKC - and special HKC rates to hook up with an RKC II, CK-FMS, Z-Health level IV trainer to check your form once registered -either in person or via webcam - check the local HKC page here for information and direct access to early bird discount registration.
Saturday, April 10, 2010
Your Perfect Nutrition Assistant? What would they do for you?
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So if you think about all the times when food comes into your life - meals, snacking, social occaisions, workouts - whenever - what do you wish someone would be able to assist you to do - not do for you, but offer assistance/knowledge?
I'm aksing because part of the research my group is doing is looking at exactly this question: what is a perfect nutrition assistant?
Before we design anything, we want to make sure some of our design decisions are linking up with what folks think they'd find helpful.
If you could have such a wonderful support, what would you like it to do for and with you?
One constraint: this assistant is more or less a ghost: it can't do anything physical but it can offer to show you anything or provide any information in this space you'd like
Please do post your thoughts/desires in the comments.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
In the meanwhile, here's a physical assistant from Japan that is designed to help the elderly shop - including getting around the shop and remembering anything that might have been forgotten.
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What would a virtual nutrition assistant do for you? Suppose you're trying to change your body comp - lose fat; build muscle - whatever. If you could imagine the perfect coach/guide who could be with you all the time - what would they be doing? When you go to have lunch, would they tell you what was ok to eat? If you were at home, would they suggest what to make or show you how to do it? If you needed to shop, what?
I'm aksing because part of the research my group is doing is looking at exactly this question: what is a perfect nutrition assistant?
Before we design anything, we want to make sure some of our design decisions are linking up with what folks think they'd find helpful.
If you could have such a wonderful support, what would you like it to do for and with you?
One constraint: this assistant is more or less a ghost: it can't do anything physical but it can offer to show you anything or provide any information in this space you'd like
Please do post your thoughts/desires in the comments.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
In the meanwhile, here's a physical assistant from Japan that is designed to help the elderly shop - including getting around the shop and remembering anything that might have been forgotten.
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Wednesday, April 7, 2010
Seeing Sleep: towards the perfect sleep rep.
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It's not new to say EVERYONE needs a coach - whether for fitness, business, academics - anything where skills are involved, a coach is a plus. The coach is there to give us cues on our technique and provide feedback on our progress. We spend a THIRD of our lives asleep It's critical for our health and wellbeing. People are at greater risk of death from poor sleep; we go funny without REM sleep; kids/teens have been shown to be more depressed and tend towards obesity from lack of REM.
More of us than not, however, know that either (a) our sleeps are crap or (b) we're not getting enough or (c) even though we're getting the hours in we still do not feel refreshed. That's unreservedly unhealthy. And if there are skills involved in getting better sleep, where's the coach for sleep? Where's the tips, the progress logs and the feedback? A small company outside Boston, MA has been developing an answer to that question. It's called Zeo, and it may help change the quality of our lives.
The following is the first part of an interview with Zeo sleep researcher, Stephan Fabregas, about sleep, what it is, why it's important and how zeo might fit in.
Background: Sleep Quality and Quantity. Ask bodybuilders about sleep and they'll tell you - perhaps more than any other athlete - how important sleep is for their prime directive: build muscle. Sleep is where that process happens. So they know the value of good sleep.
Most of us, when we think about sleep at all think about the importance of getting 7-8hrs of sleep. But it turns out, for great sleep, we need to think about not just hours of eyes shut, head down, but about quality of sleep. For nations where people chronically walk around sleep deprived, asking folks to think about quantity AND quality may be going too far. But as in strength practice itself, it's not how many reps we do, but how many quality reps we do that really count.
When i first met Stephan he asked me draw what i thought the perfect sleep is supposed to look like. What i drew looked like a single half of a single sign wave: a curve dipping down into deep sleep, than gently coming back up out towards wake. EEEEHHH. Wrong. Typical idea, but way wrong.
Quality of sleep means sleep cycles. Plural. Time in a cycle is spent in four pretty discrete sleep phases - deep, REM, light and wake. Wake is part of a sleep cylce? In fact it is. It's actually natural to wake up for short spurts at night - and not even remember that we did. A good night's sleep has at least four of these cylces where they get progressively more shallow - that means less deep sleep cycles as the night turns to morning.
Why are these sleep phases important to know about? because if we get them wrong - and get hauled awake out of a deep sleep for instance, it can wrech the rest we need and make it hard to go back for more. It's also very unpleasant to our systems.
It's this respect the cycle knowledge that also means that naps should either be only 15 mins - a light sleep phase - or 90 - time to go through a complete cycle. Trying to sleep for shorter or longer can again disrupt sleep patterns making it harder for us to recover those precious zzz's at night, or get the refreshing benefit a nap's supposed to give for the day.
So how do we know how well or not we're sleeping? WHile our loved ones might be able to tell us we're behaving like bears, we're getting up on the wrong side of the bed or we're walking around like zombies, there's a more precise way to do this, which is to measure the brainwave patterns of the frontol lobe while a person's asleep. Oh sure - i'll just check into a sleep lab you say. Well, there's actually a new device on the market called a Zeo which does this measuring for the home user. Less expensive than a high end heart rate monitor, the zeo gives its user direct, measured, quantitative data about qualitative sleep. And it provided an online coaching program to help make sense of that data for enhancing sleep quality.
Part of my research happens to be about how awareness of personal state may enable enhanced quality of life, and foster innovation and creativity, so i was very happy recently to be able to sit down with two of Zeo's main geeks Ben and Stephan about the Zeo to get them set up in our lab. Stephan and i have also been chatting about sleep, its role in evolution, and how the zeo came to be.
Stephan, let's start with something basic. What is a good night's sleep?
Ok we'll come back to that one.
You do something rather rare: you put time into sleep - and figuring out how to make it better. How did you become a sleep guy?
I've shared with you my fave curiousity about getting deeper sleeps: eat high GI carbs 4 hours before going to bed. What else is coming out of research that may have practical value for sleepfulness?
Ok that's definitely intriguing. Especially with other suggestions like having a warm bath to help relax before sleep. Agreed totally on the windows and on reducing the audibility of noises in the night.
So where in this scene does seeing sleep with a zeo make sense? how or why does zeo make sense?
Cool, we shall talk more about the Zeo, the long-lasting effect of caffeine on sleep and how or whether to try to manipulate sleep states in our next instalment. Folks who'd like to get a better sense of sleep - there's a garden of information on the Zeo site in the Sleep Information center.
In the meantime, Stephan, when you're not thinking about sleep, what are you up to? What does a Sleep Guy eat?
Thanks Stephan. More soon.
More of us than not, however, know that either (a) our sleeps are crap or (b) we're not getting enough or (c) even though we're getting the hours in we still do not feel refreshed. That's unreservedly unhealthy. And if there are skills involved in getting better sleep, where's the coach for sleep? Where's the tips, the progress logs and the feedback? A small company outside Boston, MA has been developing an answer to that question. It's called Zeo, and it may help change the quality of our lives.
The following is the first part of an interview with Zeo sleep researcher, Stephan Fabregas, about sleep, what it is, why it's important and how zeo might fit in.
Background: Sleep Quality and Quantity. Ask bodybuilders about sleep and they'll tell you - perhaps more than any other athlete - how important sleep is for their prime directive: build muscle. Sleep is where that process happens. So they know the value of good sleep.
Most of us, when we think about sleep at all think about the importance of getting 7-8hrs of sleep. But it turns out, for great sleep, we need to think about not just hours of eyes shut, head down, but about quality of sleep. For nations where people chronically walk around sleep deprived, asking folks to think about quantity AND quality may be going too far. But as in strength practice itself, it's not how many reps we do, but how many quality reps we do that really count.
When i first met Stephan he asked me draw what i thought the perfect sleep is supposed to look like. What i drew looked like a single half of a single sign wave: a curve dipping down into deep sleep, than gently coming back up out towards wake. EEEEHHH. Wrong. Typical idea, but way wrong.
Quality of sleep means sleep cycles. Plural. Time in a cycle is spent in four pretty discrete sleep phases - deep, REM, light and wake. Wake is part of a sleep cylce? In fact it is. It's actually natural to wake up for short spurts at night - and not even remember that we did. A good night's sleep has at least four of these cylces where they get progressively more shallow - that means less deep sleep cycles as the night turns to morning.
Why are these sleep phases important to know about? because if we get them wrong - and get hauled awake out of a deep sleep for instance, it can wrech the rest we need and make it hard to go back for more. It's also very unpleasant to our systems.
It's this respect the cycle knowledge that also means that naps should either be only 15 mins - a light sleep phase - or 90 - time to go through a complete cycle. Trying to sleep for shorter or longer can again disrupt sleep patterns making it harder for us to recover those precious zzz's at night, or get the refreshing benefit a nap's supposed to give for the day.
So how do we know how well or not we're sleeping? WHile our loved ones might be able to tell us we're behaving like bears, we're getting up on the wrong side of the bed or we're walking around like zombies, there's a more precise way to do this, which is to measure the brainwave patterns of the frontol lobe while a person's asleep. Oh sure - i'll just check into a sleep lab you say. Well, there's actually a new device on the market called a Zeo which does this measuring for the home user. Less expensive than a high end heart rate monitor, the zeo gives its user direct, measured, quantitative data about qualitative sleep. And it provided an online coaching program to help make sense of that data for enhancing sleep quality.
Stephan, let's start with something basic. What is a good night's sleep?
A good night's sleep is the one that leaves you feeling and performing your best when you're awake. That's it. An eminent sleep scientist once told me, "It's all about the wake, dummy". And I believe that. Now getting the sleep that gets you feeling and performing that way is another story...
Ok we'll come back to that one.
You do something rather rare: you put time into sleep - and figuring out how to make it better. How did you become a sleep guy?
Crap sleep isn't unique to student life, is it? It's one of a triad of things that seems to let go when we belive it seems the Life of the Head as i call it is under pressure: food goes, moving goes, sleep goes. But sleep still seems to have the worst end of the stick - we know about eating right and exercise. what's with sleep?
My entry into the world of sleep: As a college kid, sleep was a complete mystery. It was just a time when I conked out. But I did enjoy a good night of solid sleep, so thought it would be fun to take a class where I could really study in my sleep, as it were. It was just curiosity.
SO i became a "Sleepy Guy" serendipitously. I took an intro to sleep class during my freshman year at Brown, taught by eminent sleep scientist Mary A Carskadon. I then ended up a biology major, then worked in a sleep lab (Monique LeBourgeois, also at Brown) after graduating. We did work with healthy young kids (2-3 years old). I learned a lot and had a blast. Then this opportunity at Zeo came up and I've been here since (3 years +).
At the time though - [being an undergrad] - , I could sleep like a champ, but I remember just being exhausted. 5 hours of sleep at night was clearly not enough, but it just wasn't on the radar... Freshman year that was the last thing on anyone's mind, so nobody got enough sleep. I can say that since then, and I'm not alone regarding this at Zeo, I've definitely made sleep much more of a priority. If I get less than 7 hours now, I just know it's going to be a miserable day.
Sleep in culture: Getting by on as little sleep as possible seems to have become a badge of courage (or efficiency, rather) in our culture. I think that's only recently changing. Bill Clinton was notorious for only getting 4 hours of sleep at night and everyone was so impressed at how efficient he must have been. Then you realize that he was falling asleep at very inconvenient times, and then all his heart problems. Just recently he's decided to change his ways and get much more sleep. This is the kind of recognition I mean. Very similar to my experience since college. You can survive on little sleep, but once you start getting enough, it's like night and day, so to speak. Other examples: think of how many people don't get the sleep they want... then think about how much sleep impacts so many vital health issues... then consider that when people bring up some of the most important health issues of our age (heart disease, diabetes, cancer, obesity...) sleep is generally not on the list, even though it's becoming more and more clear how important good sleep really is. Diet and exercise are things that people take for granted as having an effect on these issues... sleep just usually isn't considered in that way by most people.You've suggested that sleep research is still grasping with the role of sleep in evolution. It is kind of weird: we spend a third of our lives in an incredibly vulneralbe state....
When we first spoke, you said that you didn't like the term "sleep hygene" - a really popular way that many sites describe setting up an environment to improve one's sleepWe have some ideas about why sleep is good for us... but nothing that suggests that it's just supremely essential (which you might expect if you're going to be unconscious to a dangerous world for a third of your life). There are some good arguments for why theories that are out there aren't sufficient to explain the cost/benefit ratio of the evolution of sleep. And most of the ideas that we do have are incredibly new. Like last decade or two new. I think we have some ideas now, but when I took that class my freshman year in college... sleep science didn't have any good idea, or at least that was the way it was taught to me. For we don't know why or how sleep is important... we have some clues, but nothing terribly solid. It's complex, but I think that's my point. There's no single, magic answer to the question of why we sleep. Why we breath: easy answer. Why we eat: easy answer. Why we should exercise: easy answer. Why we sleep: um, it may be a time of rest and recuperation... But why couldn't you just rest and recuperate while conscious? Wouldn't that be much better from an evolutionary standpoint? Like I said, it's complex. Would be easier to talk about this one than write it all out here.
I'm not a big fan of the term "hygiene", in general. It's very sterile. And I think it tends to make people roll their eyes. "Sleep hygiene" sounds intimidating, and rigid. When really, it means using common sense about sleep. Keep control of light, noise, comfort, and temperature, and that puts most people in a better position for a good night's sleep. Then there are things like relaxation and exercise and nutrition that go beyond "sleep hygiene" that are also important.So what's exciting right now in sleep research?
Anything coming out of sleep research right now is very exciting... the field is still "young" when you compare it to other major health areas like heart health or nutrition. That is, it's only now receiving proper recognition for its role in overall health. However, to be more specific, any research that explores solutions to people's sleep issues or builds the case for the importance of sleep is of interest right now - it's just fun and games unless it provides utility to people. Then, on a personal level, I'm interested in the evolutionary role of sleep. It's so counter-intuitive from an evolutionary standpoint, that it must be incredibly vital for survival... And we're still not sure how or why. That's quite a challenge.
I've shared with you my fave curiousity about getting deeper sleeps: eat high GI carbs 4 hours before going to bed. What else is coming out of research that may have practical value for sleepfulness?
Sleep tips from research: Your finding of carbs as a snack before bed can be pretty functional. I know that little things for me have worked. Dark shades over my windows have worked wonders. I don't work in my bedroom, and that's certainly created a great stress separator that works. These are all examples of strategies that come from the literature. One of my favorites, because it's just not intuitive, is that drinking a small glass of ice cold water may help induce sleep (cool the core, heat the extremities).
Ok that's definitely intriguing. Especially with other suggestions like having a warm bath to help relax before sleep. Agreed totally on the windows and on reducing the audibility of noises in the night.
So where in this scene does seeing sleep with a zeo make sense? how or why does zeo make sense?
Zeo makes sense because it's the first tool people have available to look into a third of their lives that has been a mystery. Think of that sleep graph I had you draw (u-shaped), and then the one I drew (like waves)... Knowledge is the first step to gaining control. And then Zeo provides information and tools to help you take that control and understand that sleep is an active process that is quite malleable.
Cool, we shall talk more about the Zeo, the long-lasting effect of caffeine on sleep and how or whether to try to manipulate sleep states in our next instalment. Folks who'd like to get a better sense of sleep - there's a garden of information on the Zeo site in the Sleep Information center.
In the meantime, Stephan, when you're not thinking about sleep, what are you up to? What does a Sleep Guy eat?
A history of god
by Karen Armstrong,and I think my next book will be The Man Who Loved Only Numbers
about Paul Erdos.
Cooking/eating - I make a mean Mac & Cheese and love lasagna like nobody's business. And I try to make it to the cheese shop about once a week. It's the best part of the week. (But don't worry, I try to balance out this vice with plenty of regular, vigorous, exercise.) Music-ing - live music is unbeatable. I subscribe to the Boston Symphony Orchestra every year, and love seeing the best in blues - BB King, Buddy Guy, etc. Although, it seems to be a hip-hop morning with the Pharcyde playing in my iTunes right now.
Thanks Stephan. More soon.
Part II of the begin2dig interview with Zeo Sleep Guy Stephan Fabregas follows soon.
This will be followed with a review of my own experience with the Zeo
once i've gone through a full coaching cylce with it.
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This will be followed with a review of my own experience with the Zeo
once i've gone through a full coaching cylce with it.
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