Showing posts with label kettlebell. Show all posts
Showing posts with label kettlebell. Show all posts
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
Pressing Matters: a wee chat with Dan John
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Greetings b2d readers and especially, if i may, to fellow Canucks, as tomorrow be Canada Day. To Roll in the New Great Summer month of July, something special: an interview with Dan John - mainly about pressing.
For some folks in strength training, Dan John needs no introduction. He is both an active coach in sport, and strength and conditioning as well as being an just-won't-quit competitive athlete in both his favorite sport, the discuss, as well as in the Highland Games. In very recent times, he has become a fan of the humble russian kettlebell, and a proponent of its value as part of one's trainstreing program.
I had the pleasure of connecting with Coach John at the past RKC II in San Jose, where we got talking about the Press in particular, and since then has ranged to a host of related topics from what makes a press beautiful, where it sits next to the deadlift, instinctual training, coaches and training women.
Dan will also be co-delivering a new workshop this fall with Pavel Tsatsouline for RKCs called SCIENTIFIC STRENGTH SECRETS for EXTREME PERFORMANCE (with a book to follow). The workshop i am told is also a once-only, not-to-be-repeated event.
And so without further ado, a conversation with Dan John.
Dan's Book. You have a book out called "Never Let Go
" the title of which struck me as a wee bit ironic for a guy who has a reputation for throwing objects at speed away from himself. I know you explain this in the book, but could you review the rationale?
Kettlebells in general - You've progressively moved into working with KB's. How come? what's the attraction to this tool? Where, if i may, does it fit in with the rest of your personal practice and work you do with the athletes you coach?
The Press And speaking of the press, you seem to be a guy who likes the Press as a move, why? where does that fit into the Dan John picture of strength practice?
When we were talking about improving the press, you suggested that in your experience women have to press more than guys to press heavier.
Dan, in the RKC II as you know, one of the skills/strength tests for certification is a kb press. For men, it's half their body weight. For women, it's 1/4. Some gals have been saying a quarter is too light, why not a third, or even half for women too? For a 60KG woman, going by the men's chart, this would mean, closest bell is the 28. Personally, while the 20 is fine, i'm still working to get the 24 as a 58-60kg gal.
I guess what i've been wondering is given that if we accept that women need more volume to press heavier, more volume can also mean higher exposure to possible overuse injury. Is it worth it to put up the strength requirements for women? and if they were to go up, what would you see as a sane progression?
Something all yours, kenneth jays and pavel's volume emphasis along with Asha Wagner's training results. Asha pistoled a 24 without ever training it - just trained a lot of pistoling the 12. a lot - is that doing a lot of lighter reps (50-60%) is a potentially great way to train for The Big Lift. This may seem like stating the obvious, but i'm not sure if i have lost the plot? how might you suggest that be tuned?
* women's strength in general
Training colleague Kira Clarke recently suggested that a coaching colleague has seen a correlation between strength and persistent well being. This is worth repeating so let me post it here, from Kira:
* everyone needs a coach?
On the theme of gym bags and coaching then, a lot of folks who practice their sport or their skill do so without getting together with a coach. They run or they lift or do whatever independent of any formal checks. They may say i don't know anyone, i'm only doing this for myself, not competing, why do i need to spend money on a coach i know what i'm doing. THoughts? Suggestions?
Related to dieties, and conversion, are there any attitudes that you see in folks coming to a new training practice - like oly lifting or kb's - where they've drunk the kool aid, and focus seems to narrow perhaps rather than enlarge, or everything is seen through the lens of the One True Movement? Any suggestions for folks either going through this, or observing it?
You coach folks who are frequently identified as athletes, who compete formally in sport, and then there's the rest of us who mayn't compete or think about competition. I'm not quite sure how to frame this question, but do you think there's something important about either formal competition or some kind of external check in performance that any athlete - formal or not - should consider? Do you think it's important (that's not the right word) for people to compete or be evaluated in some way (i think about the challenge of being evaluated at the RKC certs for instance)? and if yes why? or why not?
Well on that note, could you offer a few moments in your own athletic practice that have been particularly meaningful to you, and why?
- fave dan lift?
What's a practice perspective that you'd say has been of most pracitcal (and/or spiritual) benefit for you in your athletic career?
Coming up Later This Week:
Hope y'all enjoyed that. With Dan's permission granted, coming up later this week i'll post the routine Dan gave me for increasing the press (part II of the interview).
Related Links
For some folks in strength training, Dan John needs no introduction. He is both an active coach in sport, and strength and conditioning as well as being an just-won't-quit competitive athlete in both his favorite sport, the discuss, as well as in the Highland Games. In very recent times, he has become a fan of the humble russian kettlebell, and a proponent of its value as part of one's trainstreing program.
I had the pleasure of connecting with Coach John at the past RKC II in San Jose, where we got talking about the Press in particular, and since then has ranged to a host of related topics from what makes a press beautiful, where it sits next to the deadlift, instinctual training, coaches and training women.Dan will also be co-delivering a new workshop this fall with Pavel Tsatsouline for RKCs called SCIENTIFIC STRENGTH SECRETS for EXTREME PERFORMANCE (with a book to follow). The workshop i am told is also a once-only, not-to-be-repeated event.
And so without further ado, a conversation with Dan John.
Dan's Book. You have a book out called "Never Let Go
" the title of which struck me as a wee bit ironic for a guy who has a reputation for throwing objects at speed away from himself. I know you explain this in the book, but could you review the rationale? No, thank you, that makes sense. That's really kind of cool. So with that grounded base for discussion, let us move to something it usually makes good sense to keep in hand when practicing. Kettlebells.Well, of course, I discuss this in the book, but it comes from T. H.
White’s “The Sword in the Stone
.” It was the book, along with Jerry Kramer’s “Instant Replay
,” that turned me into a reader. In the book, young King Arthur (Wart) is taught by Merlyn by being turned in animals. The first law of the foot, animals who live and die by their foot or talons, is “Never Let Go.” I base my life on the principles of that book…odd as it might sound.
Kettlebells in general - You've progressively moved into working with KB's. How come? what's the attraction to this tool? Where, if i may, does it fit in with the rest of your personal practice and work you do with the athletes you coach?
The attraction of the tool is simply that: it is an awesome tool! On my limited porch, I recently moved, I can train hard, really hard, with the space that used to be about the size of my storage in my training area. I love Double Kbell Cleans and Front Squats for working hard and I love windmills and Get Ups for stretching and assessments. The Kbell is harder than it should be no matter what you are doing. Too light? Do them bottoms up! And, there is nothing better than Kbells for swings.It's really intriguing to me how many senior kb practitioners are celebrating the Swing and the bottoms up press. Potent training can be pretty simple.
The Press And speaking of the press, you seem to be a guy who likes the Press as a move, why? where does that fit into the Dan John picture of strength practice?
The overhead press would be along with the deadlift as the two most important lifts that most people should do. Yes, you should do a squatting movement every day, for the same reasons toss in a hinge, a walk, and joint mobility work, but for loading, you want the press (maybe even first and foremost in my thinking now) and the deadlift. I have worked with women in fat loss programs that simply get everything they need from pressing. Now, they also were on zero carbs, stacking ephedrine and caffeine and aspirin, drinking huge amounts of water and walking every day, but the simple overhead press seemed to pop them to another level.
If can overhead press it, you can bench it. The more you press overhead, the more stable you become overall. Also, for whatever reason, call it what you want, but pressing overhead seems to apply to sport and general badassary.Do these thoughts vary when thinking about the KB press rather than bar/dumbbell? or when you think of the press now, do you think pretty much press=kb press?
Well, for me, with my new situation, I can’t just pop into the garage and pick one of four O lifting bars, or dumbbells. I have kettlebells, so there you go!When you think about the press, or the kb press in particular, then, what would you say is the art of the press, and of developing a beautiful press?
Well, two things: first, the alignment of wrist, elbow and shoulder. I used to be dumb enough to teach this, now I just have the person do a Bottoms Up Press and then, after lots of failing, flailing and fumbling around, the person gets it right and I say “Yes, just like that.” The response is “Oh, I didn’t know that.”
The second is stability. Pick up a foot (either works, but not both at the same time) while pressing and just note how the body locks down in support. That is the key. Certainly, there are details, but I like to let the body teach you what to do. If there is a “secret” to coaching, it is to provide a simple drill to address an issue.Around women and pressing.
When we were talking about improving the press, you suggested that in your experience women have to press more than guys to press heavier.
“Press more” in terms of volume, of course…women should press probably every day, doing something in a pressing movement. I didn’t say heavy, I didn’t say 100 reps. In the same vein, woman should stop stretching all the time. They are predisposed to flexibility, yet lack in pressing strength. No, for total candor, I like the female design and I am not being critical. My point is that everyone likes to play to their strengths and ignore their weaknesses. Women need to press. Women tend to have a narrow shoulder base vis-à-vis the waist and it is difficult to press with that issue. I would argue that a guy can get away with just one press in his program, but a woman should master every variation they can find. I have had some great insights, by the way, from training women, as working with this “problem” has given me some insights to improve my own lifting. So, I decided to add more variation into my training and it has made it more fun and more productive.In that conversation, you've also plugged in doing windmills with presses to complement the press. How have you seen these go together?
In terms of load, well, adding weight to a woman’s press is stubborn work! Percents are worthless and it is really hard, like with Dragondoor Kbells, for a woman to jump up the four kilos from like the 12 to the 16. So, we get back to drills and stability work. This is fine. One little thing: if you screw up a press, you can get hurt like “Bang!” So, drilling, training and thinking is also a way NOT to hurt yourself.
The more I teach and work with Windmills, the more insights I am gaining about the upper body. This one guy in Ohio dismissed the Windmill with “I just feel it in my ribs.” I thought to myself, well, you know, the ribs are a amazing series connective tissues, hard matter and key organs below and the beauty and design of the things are poetry (certainly, it’s a rare epic that doesn’t mention them somewhere) and if you feel them moving and stretching, that’s good. Also, with all the hip work I have been doing, the Windmill is a MUST after every hip stretching workout. It is the best way to stretch the outer hips I know.Are there other moves related to supporting the press you'd suggest?
The Get Up for a moving shoulder analysis, the various presses like SeeSaws and the like, and, this won’t surprise too many people, the Double Kettlebell Front Squat. If you worked with me, you would know this one. It is a great way to teach the rack and the need to squeeze.RKC II Strength Requirements for Women's press
Dan, in the RKC II as you know, one of the skills/strength tests for certification is a kb press. For men, it's half their body weight. For women, it's 1/4. Some gals have been saying a quarter is too light, why not a third, or even half for women too? For a 60KG woman, going by the men's chart, this would mean, closest bell is the 28. Personally, while the 20 is fine, i'm still working to get the 24 as a 58-60kg gal.
I guess what i've been wondering is given that if we accept that women need more volume to press heavier, more volume can also mean higher exposure to possible overuse injury. Is it worth it to put up the strength requirements for women? and if they were to go up, what would you see as a sane progression?
For me, this is one of those questions for someone with more experience. I wouldn’t mind a quick study of this as something to discuss it with the hard numbers, but I think a lot of women can just grab the 16 and press it with no training. The 106 KB is NOT something most guys can just pick up who weight over 100 Kilos. So, I have mixed feelings about this. I like standards, but I also like people to feel they can do accomplish the task. Real mixed feelings…Interesting...So if we think about upping weight, though, what are the cues you'd give your athletes - perhaps the gals in particular - to help head off overuse injuries before they occur?
Overuse injuries are rarely caused by me! The volleyball crazies and the basketball loons with all their year round clubs and travel teams and all the BS lying about full ride scholarships. We have girls with multiple ACL surgeries and then someone comes into the weightroom and tells me that I am overdoing something? I guess it “can” happen, but just remember Pavel’s basic programming point: any idiot can “work you out.” And, there seems to be plenty of idiots on the internet. Hire someone who will teach you, train you. That will prevent most problems: proper training. Pay attention: if you are about to fail, stop. Rest, start again.high volume; lighter loads for strength
Something all yours, kenneth jays and pavel's volume emphasis along with Asha Wagner's training results. Asha pistoled a 24 without ever training it - just trained a lot of pistoling the 12. a lot - is that doing a lot of lighter reps (50-60%) is a potentially great way to train for The Big Lift. This may seem like stating the obvious, but i'm not sure if i have lost the plot? how might you suggest that be tuned?
The one great lesson that lifters can learn from throwers: you should thrive in submaximal ranges. Not every throw is the World Record…they can’t all be gems!
* women's strength in general
Training colleague Kira Clarke recently suggested that a coaching colleague has seen a correlation between strength and persistent well being. This is worth repeating so let me post it here, from Kira:
"My coach friend (Will Heffernan) has a simple test (and benchmarks) he uses regularly on his athletes (he adjusts them for different types of athletes, but these are his general guidelines)
Squat or deadlift: 2 x bodyweight
Inverted rows in 1 minute: 30+
Pushups in 1 minute: 50+
Pullups in 1 set: 10+
Bench press: 1.5 x bodyweight
In his experience, once his athletes hit these numbers (and ratios) their injuries drop significantly. And as they surpass them, he still likes to see lower/upper body strength numbers increase together, and the bodyweight numbers increase maintaining the ratio of approximately 5:3:1."
[...]
He recommends the following for female athletes ...Does the above resonate with you at all as injury proofing? Anything you'd highlight or modify?
deadlift: 2 x bodyweight...
pullups: 8+
pushups: 50+
inverted rows: 30+
bench press: 1-1.25 x bodyweight
(It's basically the same benchmarks he uses for 100kg+ male athletes)
He also shared the following snarky remark ...
"The biggest problem that female athletes suffer from is the low expectations of male coaches"
I have two very strong daughters (State Champion in the shot for Lindsay) and a very strong wife. One of things I would agree with entirely is that male coaches often coddle their females (sadly, literally true) but I have pushed my family to some big numbers in the weightroom simply by expecting it. There is no question that the human female is not that weak in comparison to the male, I just read about this in a book (I’m usually reading about two or three at a time, so I don’t remember which one) and for primates we are pretty even between males and females. So, we shouldn’t be afraid to push females in the weightroom. I do.What are your approaches to help keep your athletes injury free, and do you modify that council at all between gals and guys?
This is going to shock you, but I change nothing working for males or females. I have to admit, I have more feminine products in my gym bags than most guys.
On the theme of gym bags and coaching then, a lot of folks who practice their sport or their skill do so without getting together with a coach. They run or they lift or do whatever independent of any formal checks. They may say i don't know anyone, i'm only doing this for myself, not competing, why do i need to spend money on a coach i know what i'm doing. THoughts? Suggestions?
Well, I need a pair of eyes to watch me! No one coaches me and it really hurts my quality of training. I would strongly suggest that everyone get some level of coaching. It doesn’t have to be much, but it really helps. I am cutting my own income, but some coaching can help. Now, don’t let the coach become a God with all knowledge and all knowing and all this and that. It’s just a coach. One’s deity should be a bit more complete.* attitude of the Converted?
Related to dieties, and conversion, are there any attitudes that you see in folks coming to a new training practice - like oly lifting or kb's - where they've drunk the kool aid, and focus seems to narrow perhaps rather than enlarge, or everything is seen through the lens of the One True Movement? Any suggestions for folks either going through this, or observing it?
How about: Get over it?That's pretty clear. Still on coaching, this topic of instincutal vs planned routine training seems to come up more frequently. Your thoughts on "instinctual training" vs "training plan?
How about: Shut up?
Number Two is my issue with the guys on the net, especially. One 40 kilo snatch and they start giving advice like the Olympic champ. Show some discipline and continue to learn. I snatched 142.5 and felt like I still knew nothing. Hell, I still don’t!
I really think you need a lot of experience to train without guidance. I like what Alwyn Cosgrove says about doing a program: now, you can critique it. So, do about ten different programs, then try something on your own. I was a fairly accomplished athlete when I did ETK from Pavel, AfterBurn II from Alwyn and the Velocity Diet from Chris Shuggart. That’s the key: follow plans until you trust your instincts to follow plans.* Athletic Achievement/reality-checking
You coach folks who are frequently identified as athletes, who compete formally in sport, and then there's the rest of us who mayn't compete or think about competition. I'm not quite sure how to frame this question, but do you think there's something important about either formal competition or some kind of external check in performance that any athlete - formal or not - should consider? Do you think it's important (that's not the right word) for people to compete or be evaluated in some way (i think about the challenge of being evaluated at the RKC certs for instance)? and if yes why? or why not?
Well, sports gives you the right world for a goal. It is on this day, at that place, with these “things.” So, no BS. You do what you say you will do. It is hard for a person to follow their goals without the built in support systems that a sport naturally has going for it.Personal moments of athletic happiness?
Well on that note, could you offer a few moments in your own athletic practice that have been particularly meaningful to you, and why?
* Dan Faves?I always love overcoming all the barriers in the way of being a champion. There are so many…
- My daughter’s last throw, personal best, winning toss to win the State Championship in the shot put.
- Having both daughters in the finals at the state meet in the discus…at once!
- The many times I have won things on the last throw or last effort.
Double Kettlebell Press- fave dan throw?
Discus!!!- fave dan move he wishes he could do but currently does not see himself doing in this lifetime?
The Bent Press- fave dan move he wishes he could do and can see that happening this lifetime?
A correct WindmillFinal Dan Thoughts
What's a practice perspective that you'd say has been of most pracitcal (and/or spiritual) benefit for you in your athletic career?
If you'd reference “To Grad from Dad” on my website here? It is all of this…and more!You bet sir. Thank you for your time. Much obliged. That was fun.
Coming up Later This Week:
Hope y'all enjoyed that. With Dan's permission granted, coming up later this week i'll post the routine Dan gave me for increasing the press (part II of the interview).
begin2dig (b2d) on Facebook
Related Links
- Asha Wagner: Women's Beast Challenge Tamer
- Eccentrics for Tendinopathy
- Andrea du Cane: Windmill Queen and Strength Master
- Windmills and Press Combo (inspired by dan john)
- The Shoulder Girdle
- The Rotator Cuff
- This is protection for ankle injuries?
- mc's rif on Kenneth Jay's beast pressing protocol
PDF
Wednesday, September 30, 2009
Return of the Kettlebell check in: relax, look and breath
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In the clean and jerk sessions of Return of the Kettlebell (prelim overview here) there is a still point, it seems, that comes from double kettlebell sessions and this particular move that opens up a kind of Next Level of performance - or perhaps it's just me, so let me try to explain what i mean.
When i recently wrote about starting into RTK, i said it focuses the mind. I mean it. And i *really* like that. Nothing like moving two kb's at speed, and under control, and a lot, to get that this is a kind of serious business and staying fresh not squirrelly is critical.
But there's also more than that. Again, this could just be me, but because i'm now moving two bells in synchrony, my attention on what i'm doing is different from single bell work. Qualitatively. For instance, with a one arm press, i'm checking everything in single terms: feet, glutes, gut, lats etc and on into the press itself. Perfect rep; perfect form.
But with two bells - perhaps more so in the dynamic moves like the snatch and the clean & jerk, it seems, when moving the bells, the focus can't be equally on the two arms doing the press, nor does attention split to being a bit on this side and a bit on that side. For lack of a better term the effort becomes more about the movement systemically rather than the parts.
Somthing i'm finding is that there is more focus on executing the move well and diagnosis happens post rep rather than within rep. It's as if in the ladders there are opportunities for very fast diagnostics or post mortems after doing even early rungs, that can then be applied to the next rung. Again, at least for me, i find that diagnostic happening more post move than pre move with the C&J than i do with the single arm press.
The Spot on the Door.
Here's an example. Yesterday doing medium day C&J, i was noticing a real difference in feel between the second and third rungs. The last time i'd done this block i'd also found i was getting perhaps overly intrigued about my breathing - except that i knew it didn't feel right. I also generally find myself closing my eyes when i get into a groove, and usually that's fine, but it wasn't helping as it usually does.
Then something kinda bizarre happened yesterday mid set at this tranistion point between totally sweet rungs and less perfect feeling rung. I looked at a spot on the door in front of me (i practice in a hallway). All of a sudden i noticed the move came together. For one thing, i felt like i was able to slow the pace down a bit and get more power into the clean part of each rep. There was then a sort of "ah ha" about the breathing, and then the jerk just went all zen. Not that i didn't feel the work, but it was different. Neurological harmony.
Take aways from this double kb practice for me (your mileage may very) were generally:
Slow down to feel the force in the clean, luke. I don't mean that to sound like it's a physical speed thing. I don't think the bells moved slower; i was slower inside. And i think that slowness was also where the "relaxedness" of the title comes from - i'm still focusing on hip flexor drive, tight abs etc, but it's more wound up than tossed out. More focused, less effortful in the effort. Oh grr. hard to describe.
The spaces in between. Free the Joints. The other thing on the jerk part for me was finding that spot in the door. I don't know if that spot helped anchor better arthrokinetic responses - freeing up my shoulders & neck just that bit more out of neurological threat that the jerk felt both less effortful and less fatiguing - but the difference is stunning to me. That shift in gears between the 2'nd and 3'rd ladders really quieted right down.
So what these simple moments did for me is show that, while breathing is so key to getting that coordinated effort - there are other systems in me that need to sync with that breathing. And boy does head position and the use of the eyes seem to be a powerful part of that coordination. Now i thought i knew at least about head position, but the double kb's taught it in a whole new way.
I feel like i've learned something new that i don't think i would have found this quite so clearly, or had its benefits so inscribed without the double kb challenge, and this particular big kb move.
kettlebell as instrument?
This is gonna sound flakey but one of the things i like about picking up guitars at different folks' places is that i find every single instrument from the meanest to the most extravagant has a voice - something to say. It's probably so obvious to say so does this kind of gear. I think i may be starting to get why Pavel in his conversation with Geoff Neupert a month back in the kettlebell secrets calls said barbell or kettlebell - they're great but pick one and really get it. Only advanced folks like Adam T. Glass or Brett Jones would mix them up. For a moment the other day, i think i kinda got a bit of the rationale and benefit of that. It's not just about learning new moves; it's for lack of a better term, this neurological harmony. It feels great when it all locks in (better than 'the pump').
The cool thing i sense from this expertise practice - and again marial arts folks may say nice catching up there, sport - is that really getting it with this tool means transferable skills rather than just specific skills, too - i know what this locked in in my body feels like now when challenged with double weight. I can look to find that in other moves now as well, whether kicking a ball or doing a pull up. Perhaps. Yes no?
Anyway, i was surprised. And while i enjoy Enter the Kettlebell very much (here's why) and return to it often, RTK's demands and focus sharpening are very appealing right now. And the other day, i just had what feels like an unexpected bonus outcome, too, about integration and smooth power. Tomorrow's challenge will be how to carry this practice into Heavy Day C&J.
Time to Double KB?
Just to note, if you're curious about exploring double KB work, Georff Neupert, RKC maestro of strength, is doing a series on his blog of how to think about when and how best to ramp into double kettlebell work. His Blog's a great resource in general. Thoughtful.
Look forward to hearing about your experiences.
Related Posts
In the clean and jerk sessions of Return of the Kettlebell (prelim overview here) there is a still point, it seems, that comes from double kettlebell sessions and this particular move that opens up a kind of Next Level of performance - or perhaps it's just me, so let me try to explain what i mean.
When i recently wrote about starting into RTK, i said it focuses the mind. I mean it. And i *really* like that. Nothing like moving two kb's at speed, and under control, and a lot, to get that this is a kind of serious business and staying fresh not squirrelly is critical.
But there's also more than that. Again, this could just be me, but because i'm now moving two bells in synchrony, my attention on what i'm doing is different from single bell work. Qualitatively. For instance, with a one arm press, i'm checking everything in single terms: feet, glutes, gut, lats etc and on into the press itself. Perfect rep; perfect form.
But with two bells - perhaps more so in the dynamic moves like the snatch and the clean & jerk, it seems, when moving the bells, the focus can't be equally on the two arms doing the press, nor does attention split to being a bit on this side and a bit on that side. For lack of a better term the effort becomes more about the movement systemically rather than the parts.
Somthing i'm finding is that there is more focus on executing the move well and diagnosis happens post rep rather than within rep. It's as if in the ladders there are opportunities for very fast diagnostics or post mortems after doing even early rungs, that can then be applied to the next rung. Again, at least for me, i find that diagnostic happening more post move than pre move with the C&J than i do with the single arm press.
The Spot on the Door.
Here's an example. Yesterday doing medium day C&J, i was noticing a real difference in feel between the second and third rungs. The last time i'd done this block i'd also found i was getting perhaps overly intrigued about my breathing - except that i knew it didn't feel right. I also generally find myself closing my eyes when i get into a groove, and usually that's fine, but it wasn't helping as it usually does.
Then something kinda bizarre happened yesterday mid set at this tranistion point between totally sweet rungs and less perfect feeling rung. I looked at a spot on the door in front of me (i practice in a hallway). All of a sudden i noticed the move came together. For one thing, i felt like i was able to slow the pace down a bit and get more power into the clean part of each rep. There was then a sort of "ah ha" about the breathing, and then the jerk just went all zen. Not that i didn't feel the work, but it was different. Neurological harmony.
Take aways from this double kb practice for me (your mileage may very) were generally:
Slow down to feel the force in the clean, luke. I don't mean that to sound like it's a physical speed thing. I don't think the bells moved slower; i was slower inside. And i think that slowness was also where the "relaxedness" of the title comes from - i'm still focusing on hip flexor drive, tight abs etc, but it's more wound up than tossed out. More focused, less effortful in the effort. Oh grr. hard to describe.
The spaces in between. Free the Joints. The other thing on the jerk part for me was finding that spot in the door. I don't know if that spot helped anchor better arthrokinetic responses - freeing up my shoulders & neck just that bit more out of neurological threat that the jerk felt both less effortful and less fatiguing - but the difference is stunning to me. That shift in gears between the 2'nd and 3'rd ladders really quieted right down.
So what these simple moments did for me is show that, while breathing is so key to getting that coordinated effort - there are other systems in me that need to sync with that breathing. And boy does head position and the use of the eyes seem to be a powerful part of that coordination. Now i thought i knew at least about head position, but the double kb's taught it in a whole new way.
I feel like i've learned something new that i don't think i would have found this quite so clearly, or had its benefits so inscribed without the double kb challenge, and this particular big kb move.
kettlebell as instrument?
This is gonna sound flakey but one of the things i like about picking up guitars at different folks' places is that i find every single instrument from the meanest to the most extravagant has a voice - something to say. It's probably so obvious to say so does this kind of gear. I think i may be starting to get why Pavel in his conversation with Geoff Neupert a month back in the kettlebell secrets calls said barbell or kettlebell - they're great but pick one and really get it. Only advanced folks like Adam T. Glass or Brett Jones would mix them up. For a moment the other day, i think i kinda got a bit of the rationale and benefit of that. It's not just about learning new moves; it's for lack of a better term, this neurological harmony. It feels great when it all locks in (better than 'the pump').
The cool thing i sense from this expertise practice - and again marial arts folks may say nice catching up there, sport - is that really getting it with this tool means transferable skills rather than just specific skills, too - i know what this locked in in my body feels like now when challenged with double weight. I can look to find that in other moves now as well, whether kicking a ball or doing a pull up. Perhaps. Yes no?
Anyway, i was surprised. And while i enjoy Enter the Kettlebell very much (here's why) and return to it often, RTK's demands and focus sharpening are very appealing right now. And the other day, i just had what feels like an unexpected bonus outcome, too, about integration and smooth power. Tomorrow's challenge will be how to carry this practice into Heavy Day C&J.
Time to Double KB?
Just to note, if you're curious about exploring double KB work, Georff Neupert, RKC maestro of strength, is doing a series on his blog of how to think about when and how best to ramp into double kettlebell work. His Blog's a great resource in general. Thoughtful.
Look forward to hearing about your experiences.
Related Posts
- The Perfect Rep Quest - series
- kettlebell swing - about the lats - finding and firing
- better neurological form for sport - i-phase
- pull ups - from 1 to 101
- 10,000 reps of clean
Sunday, August 16, 2009
Review of Kenneth Jay's Viking Warrior Conditioning for Proper VO2max training
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This post is a review of Kenneth Jay's Viking Warrior Conditioning (VWC) for "proper VO2max training" . The review goes over the book and includes notes from an interview with Kenneth Jay on some of the finer details behind the VO2max and lactic acid pushing protocols of Viking Warrior conditioning.
o Cut to the Chase overview/recommendation:
If you are an athlete who needs stamina, strenght and endurance - whether on the field or in the gym; in team or in solo sports, this is an excellent protocol for maximally efficient cardiovascular conditioning.
A few quick reasons:
o What's in this Review
The following review goes over who Viking warrior conditioning is for, how the book is presented, why the protocols presented are effective, how that's demonstrated, and why this book would be a great asset for strength and conditioning coaches, team coaches and athletes across the sports board, from cyclists to power lifters.
Who's this book for? Anyone who needs strength, stamina and power. Despite the fact that this book focuses on the use of the kettlebell snatch for its protocols, this book is not just for people devoted to the kettlebell. The kettlebell, and in this case, the single move the kettlebell snatch, just happens to be terrific for cardiovascular (CV) conditioning.
If you're an athlete who needs strength to move, stamina to keep moving and power to move something as effectively as possible, VO2max conditioning is a good idea.
Consider an athlete on a team where the team can go and go with skill and strength - right until about the last crucial ten minutes of the match. It's those last ten minutes that may just make the difference between having the concentration and energy to win against the other team.
Remember Andy Rodick at the end of this year's Wimbleton? Neck and neck with Federer till the last few minutes. Was it talent and skill or more energy reserves at that point that put Federer ahead of such a tight battle?
And what about just having the energy to get through a long day, whether that day is moving furniture or working out details of a troublesome project. Enhancing our capacity to move oxygen through our blood stream, improving its efficiency at doing so, and being able to work harder, longer for effectively less effort are all great things. These effects are great in an of themselves, plus they have super side benefits for health, longevity and well being.
o Caveat Before Starting
The only thing VWC assumes is that you already have some level of conditioning. That is, this is not a protocol for someone who is going from complete sedentary level to VO2 conditioning. Why?
Snatch Speed. The protocols in this book demand both skill with the kettlebell snatch in order to maintain perfect form with the KB when moving it quickly and repeatedly in both the down strokes (overspeed eccentrics) and the up strokes (explosive force).
Interval Effort. As Lyle McDonald summarized in an overview of the role of intervals in fitness, they're best suited to someone who has some base level fitness already. If just starting a fitness program, get used to moving first. And if you'd like to start moving with a kettlebell, excellent idea. I'd strongly encourage you to consider Enter the Kettlebell (reviewed here) for fitness, and Precision Nutrition (reviewed here) as a great habit building approach to nutrition.
o The Organization of VWC - a book in 4 main movements
Before getting into a discussion of Kenneth Jay's protocols, it's worth considering what else is in the book. The book is presented as 10 chapters. That may sound like a lot, but some of the chapters are quite succinct, and they fit into what might be described as three related movements:
The initial sections build up why working on VO2max conditioning is an important and effective component in overall strength and conditioning work. An overview of the viking warrior conditioning concept is presented, and followed by an overview of cardiovascular physiology - no mean feat - followed by a discussion of force, finished up with a few thoughts on how the kettlebell - in particular the kettlebell snatch - ties all these attributes together.
Essentially, fast snatching with perfect form enables one to develop two properties of the heart: eccentric hypertrophy - its elasticity to pump lots of blood - and concentric hypertrophy - some thickening of the walls of the heart to handle the pressure of heavy loads for powerful efforts.
Oxygen is critical to our survival. Blood carries oxygen to our muscles; the effort of muscles uses up that oxygen and needs to be replaced. The effectiveness with which fresh blood can be powered through our veins is related to how effectively our heart can pump: how strong the force it can genearte (and sustain) and how much of the blood it can take in, it can actually get out of the heart again. (For more detail, Related discussion on cardio, kb's and energy system integration here)
What these combined actions of pumping blood out of the heart and getting it into the hungry muscles, mean is that the heart can get more oxygen both into and out of the muscles faster and more efficiently, and it can get more blood especially out of the heart with each beat. Better blood flow, and more O2 reaching the muscles combines to mean less fatigue and more power, stamina and, effectively strength.
Two Strengths of the Heart. Usually, endurance athletics like running or swimming or cycling
develop eccentric hypertrophy, while resistance training and sprinting develop more concentric hypertrophy. It's important to develop both. And Kenneth's snatch protocol attests to doing both.
There's only really one other activity beside the kb snatch it seems that has been shown to simulate this simultaneous double effect on the heart, and that's rowing. And if you're Stuart McGill, you're not crazy about rowing because your back is in flexion a great deal of the time. This is not the case with the snatch.
Jay goes into some detail on how the cardiovascular system of the heart and bloodflow works. Some folks may want to skip this part and get to the protocols, and that's fine: it's there for reference. But for those who do want to get at *why* the protocols that follow will enhance those two key components of cardiovascular strength, the explanations are very good. They make a few assumptions - for example the Krebs cycle is mentioned without explanation, and the roles of lactic acid and why we might want to push on that is also left more stated than explained. But there's sufficient information that is well-explained to get a handle on the process, and seek out other sources in an informed way if more info is sought.
+ Second Movement: The VWC protocols
Viking Warrior Conditioning presents 5 protocols for VO2max conditioning. Each are progressive and build upon the previous one.
36:36 The most discussed protocols in the RKC kettlebell scene is the protocol Kenneth Jay first introduced to the RKC II certification a couple years ago. The 36:36. Why 36 secs on/36 seconds off. Kenneth Jay explains this in the book as follows:
And so i did ask Kenneth exactly this. To which he replies that the focus in not on the work to rest interval ratio, but on the max time for VO2max work in a minute:
For backup to the above, Kenneth references the following article in particular:
The other Protocols. Beyond 36:36 there is one preliminary/prepatory protocol before diving into 36:36, and then three other peaking and pushing protocols that focus on both pushing beyong VO2max and on lactic acid tolerance.
Indeed lactic acid is in the title of the three post 36:36 protocols, and its one concept that Viking Warrior Conditioning does not directly explicate. So i asked Kenneth if he could talk about that focus a bit more here. Here's what he said:
Likewise, what about going over VO2max? How can we do something at MORE than 100%? If that more than 100% feels like Spinal Tap's amplifier ("it goes to 11"), then a couple things to remember. First we have more than one energy system we can draw on, each being categorized as aerobic (using oxygen) and anaerobic (not using oxygen). When the aerobic capacity gets tapped out - or we hold our breath for an intense effort - we're drawing on those anaerobic energy levels. I asked KJ if he could describe this beyond 100% V02max capacity, and he came back with the following analogies:
How Long to Do Them All? Kenneth Jay's protocols, informed by recent research on best-tapping of energy production and tolerances for optimal work. If a person has the stamina to move through each protocol in succession, it will take approximately 30 -36weeks - in other words the better part of a year.
Of course, these protocols are the crown jewels of the book, but as a good coach, Kenneth doesn't simply say here's a bunch of nifty protocols; he provides a few contexts in how they can be applied. Thus the next sections of Viking Warrior Conditioning present how to put these strategies to work.
o Third Movement: Thorolf and Friends
The Protocol section closes with three strategies of how VWC might be adapted to co-exist within anyone's current training practice. This also includes KJ's own prefered approach. But the part of the book that is a particular asset is the case study that follows.
Here we see charted out exactly how one "moderately trained" 35 year old male, Throlof, did following the first four of the five Viking Warrior Conditioning protocols. Each protocol is mapped out on a per session /per week basis to see progression of volume.
We see the calculations for percentage over VO2max worked out to go with particular protocols. The only thing we do not see is Thorlof hooked up to a cart to validate that the calculated VO2max percentatges are validated in practice. Given that these calculations however are based on a lot of research that has been tested, and since we can see Thorlof's progress we can be pretty confident there is a strong progressive effect.
Kenneth Jay also stated in our exchanges that yes Thorolf really exists and yes these are his numbers.
Active Rest. Something also keen to note in the case study are the back off weeks in the program. Either Thorolf has great instincts or a great coach, but he kept himself sane by backing off for a bit and coming back stronger than before for a persistent, consistent linear progression of results over time.
Intervals vs other CV conditioning. Kenneth rounds off the Thorolf section with a nice discussion of the benefit of interval training vs. steady state. This chapter has the unfortunate title of "why the fat burning zone is a joke" but aside from that he makes the now well established case that in 2/3's the time of a steady state 75% Max heart Rate workout one is burning significantly more calories, and hence getting at more fat - so getting lean is good. The section also touches on why intervals like these have other benefits than steady state - and that may be the key thing, more than how many calories are burned or not.
What we know from increasing amounts of data is that, at a certain intensity of effort, things start happening at the DNA level of our responses to demands for fuel that have effects not just on our hearts but on our muscels, too. We touched on this a couple of weeks ago in this research review of the 6mins in 2weeks Efforts and its potential applications.
To complete the discussion on the benefits of Viking Warrior Condition, Kenneth concludes with a discussion on Conditioning and on Power, how they relate and how, not surprisingly, VWC helps develop each of the areas discussed. The discussion on general conditioning is particularly strong, discussing fatigue management, its relation to work capacity and the role of oxygen uptake - the latter being a big chunk of what VO2max work is about.
o Fourth Movement: Real People - well, RKC's and a Fighter- using VWC
What comes as a surprise in the book is the chapter that simply presents 3 RKC's of varrying levels writing about their experience with the VWC protocols. 2 of the 3 writers is a woman. That's cool. It's difficult in reading through these experiences not to see how they might be applicable to a range of athletes. To drive the point home, the section concludes with an interview of Mark O Madsen (also an RKC) who is a "world ranked Greco-Roman wrestler." The core take away from this interview is that the kettlebell is one of many tools the athlete uses regularly, with the 15:15 protocol being his main VWC protocol - from which he's getting a lot of mileage. The take home is this is a serious athlete "ranked 2nd in the world" - so if this approach wasn't working for him in a serious way, it would not be in his training.
o Coda
The book finishes with a review of the RKC hardstyle snatch. In an interview with Geoff Neupert, Kenneth Jay reiterated that he takes as a base level for this protocol someone who has gone through Pavel Tsatsouline's Enter the Kettlebell Program Minimum and Rite of Passage protocols for basic level comfort and control in kettlebell work.
Since this is such a snatch heavy program, seeing an RKC trainer to check snatch form is a Good Idea, too.
Kenneth in his Call to Action promises that Viking Warrior Condition will offer a transformative experience of conditioning like no other. After reading the book, you'll know not only how to make that happen but why these protocols will deliver that. And based on the the testimony of the people in the book, there's excellent support to show that the claims are not unwarranted.
A word for Rif. One other voice prefaces the book, Master RKC Mark Reifkind. He has not only written about his experience in the book's forward, but he's chronicled it as well on Rif's blog. His and Tracy Reifkind's progress with these protocols is perhaps kenneth's best testament to their efficacy. Every claim Rif makes in the forward is documented - frequently with video - for all to see.
o Other Athletes: Runners And Rugby Forwards.
Something i've started to investigate with some athletes is how VWC might be interleaved with their running practice to reduce hard miles on their bodies and up their performance. It's early days, but this has promise.
Another place some of us will be looking at in the fall is how VWC can improve the end-of-game stamina of a team's rugby forwards - complementing, not interupting, their pre and in-season training.
o Summary
VIking Warrior Condition is an intense program that promises to deliver persistent, consistent results.
The book may feel thin in the hands at 109 pages, but as such it's also a highly practical, efficient manual that anyone can wrap their heads around in a single sitting, and come back to as necessary when moving up the protocols.
If you're interested in tested practical applications of interval training for cardiovascular fitness, strength and stamina, for excellent conditioning, and would like to use a simple implement to achieve these ends, this is a book worth having, and approach worth practicing.
Let me know how go your results.
Kenneth Jay's Viking Warrior Conditioning, published by Dragon Door, 2008.
Related recommended resources
Enter the Kettlebell
Precision Nutrition
Kettlebells:
In the US: dragondoor kettlebells
In the UK: kettelbell Fever
Related Posts
o Cut to the Chase overview/recommendation:
If you are an athlete who needs stamina, strenght and endurance - whether on the field or in the gym; in team or in solo sports, this is an excellent protocol for maximally efficient cardiovascular conditioning.
A few quick reasons:
- it's efficient, making good use of what we know about interval-based training
- it works the whole body
- it uses one relatively inexpensive piece of equipment that can be used pretty much anywhere one has room to swing a cat
- the book itself has sufficient explanations for someone to understand why they need to do what's prescribed as prescribed, and it provides case studies and real people reports to show how this protocol works for real people.
- It's a complete package.
o What's in this Review
The following review goes over who Viking warrior conditioning is for, how the book is presented, why the protocols presented are effective, how that's demonstrated, and why this book would be a great asset for strength and conditioning coaches, team coaches and athletes across the sports board, from cyclists to power lifters.
Who's this book for? Anyone who needs strength, stamina and power. Despite the fact that this book focuses on the use of the kettlebell snatch for its protocols, this book is not just for people devoted to the kettlebell. The kettlebell, and in this case, the single move the kettlebell snatch, just happens to be terrific for cardiovascular (CV) conditioning.
If you're an athlete who needs strength to move, stamina to keep moving and power to move something as effectively as possible, VO2max conditioning is a good idea.
Consider an athlete on a team where the team can go and go with skill and strength - right until about the last crucial ten minutes of the match. It's those last ten minutes that may just make the difference between having the concentration and energy to win against the other team.
Remember Andy Rodick at the end of this year's Wimbleton? Neck and neck with Federer till the last few minutes. Was it talent and skill or more energy reserves at that point that put Federer ahead of such a tight battle?
And what about just having the energy to get through a long day, whether that day is moving furniture or working out details of a troublesome project. Enhancing our capacity to move oxygen through our blood stream, improving its efficiency at doing so, and being able to work harder, longer for effectively less effort are all great things. These effects are great in an of themselves, plus they have super side benefits for health, longevity and well being.
o Caveat Before Starting
The only thing VWC assumes is that you already have some level of conditioning. That is, this is not a protocol for someone who is going from complete sedentary level to VO2 conditioning. Why?
Snatch Speed. The protocols in this book demand both skill with the kettlebell snatch in order to maintain perfect form with the KB when moving it quickly and repeatedly in both the down strokes (overspeed eccentrics) and the up strokes (explosive force).
Interval Effort. As Lyle McDonald summarized in an overview of the role of intervals in fitness, they're best suited to someone who has some base level fitness already. If just starting a fitness program, get used to moving first. And if you'd like to start moving with a kettlebell, excellent idea. I'd strongly encourage you to consider Enter the Kettlebell (reviewed here) for fitness, and Precision Nutrition (reviewed here) as a great habit building approach to nutrition.
o The Organization of VWC - a book in 4 main movements
Before getting into a discussion of Kenneth Jay's protocols, it's worth considering what else is in the book. The book is presented as 10 chapters. That may sound like a lot, but some of the chapters are quite succinct, and they fit into what might be described as three related movements:
- First movement: the motivation for and explanation of how VO2max conditioning Works
- Second movement: the protocols
- Third movement: the case study: the protocols applied
- fourth movement: testimonials of experiences with the VO2max protocol
The initial sections build up why working on VO2max conditioning is an important and effective component in overall strength and conditioning work. An overview of the viking warrior conditioning concept is presented, and followed by an overview of cardiovascular physiology - no mean feat - followed by a discussion of force, finished up with a few thoughts on how the kettlebell - in particular the kettlebell snatch - ties all these attributes together.
Essentially, fast snatching with perfect form enables one to develop two properties of the heart: eccentric hypertrophy - its elasticity to pump lots of blood - and concentric hypertrophy - some thickening of the walls of the heart to handle the pressure of heavy loads for powerful efforts.
Oxygen is critical to our survival. Blood carries oxygen to our muscles; the effort of muscles uses up that oxygen and needs to be replaced. The effectiveness with which fresh blood can be powered through our veins is related to how effectively our heart can pump: how strong the force it can genearte (and sustain) and how much of the blood it can take in, it can actually get out of the heart again. (For more detail, Related discussion on cardio, kb's and energy system integration here)
What these combined actions of pumping blood out of the heart and getting it into the hungry muscles, mean is that the heart can get more oxygen both into and out of the muscles faster and more efficiently, and it can get more blood especially out of the heart with each beat. Better blood flow, and more O2 reaching the muscles combines to mean less fatigue and more power, stamina and, effectively strength.
Two Strengths of the Heart. Usually, endurance athletics like running or swimming or cycling
develop eccentric hypertrophy, while resistance training and sprinting develop more concentric hypertrophy. It's important to develop both. And Kenneth's snatch protocol attests to doing both.There's only really one other activity beside the kb snatch it seems that has been shown to simulate this simultaneous double effect on the heart, and that's rowing. And if you're Stuart McGill, you're not crazy about rowing because your back is in flexion a great deal of the time. This is not the case with the snatch.
Jay goes into some detail on how the cardiovascular system of the heart and bloodflow works. Some folks may want to skip this part and get to the protocols, and that's fine: it's there for reference. But for those who do want to get at *why* the protocols that follow will enhance those two key components of cardiovascular strength, the explanations are very good. They make a few assumptions - for example the Krebs cycle is mentioned without explanation, and the roles of lactic acid and why we might want to push on that is also left more stated than explained. But there's sufficient information that is well-explained to get a handle on the process, and seek out other sources in an informed way if more info is sought.
+ Second Movement: The VWC protocols
Viking Warrior Conditioning presents 5 protocols for VO2max conditioning. Each are progressive and build upon the previous one.
36:36 The most discussed protocols in the RKC kettlebell scene is the protocol Kenneth Jay first introduced to the RKC II certification a couple years ago. The 36:36. Why 36 secs on/36 seconds off. Kenneth Jay explains this in the book as follows:
Thrity-Six seconds is 60% of 1 minute. Research has shown that doing intervals at 60% of the time spent at VO2max is far superior to 50% (the suggestion of 30-second sets) or 70% or even 40% and 80% when doing high volumne work (35 sets)One may ask, how is 36:36 representative of 60%, when the interval is 1:1. Isn't that 50% of 1min 12 secs total for the set? Shouldn't it be 36:24?
And so i did ask Kenneth exactly this. To which he replies that the focus in not on the work to rest interval ratio, but on the max time for VO2max work in a minute:
First thing is to remember the 60% does NOT refer to W:R ratio or the protocol itself. the 60% is taken from the time spent at MVO2 during the cadence test. in order to elicit a MVO2 response several factors has to be present among others a gradual build up- henc the 5 min test. the 5th minute is all out which should be VO2max and in order to take the slow component of the VO2 kinetics into account a minimum of 1 minute has to be kept (this is necessary because the test estimates as opposed to direct meassurement) The 36:36 sec. protocol is therefore derived by saying that if we are working at VO2max levels for 1 min during the test and research show (like esfarjani & Laursen, 2007 ao) that interval duration should be 60% of the time you are able to keep your VO2max then I arrive at 36 sec. IF I had chosen to have the cadence test last 5 1/2 in. with the last 1 1/ min all out then the work interval duration would have to be 60% of 90 sec (54 sec.) this would have been just as accurate if it had not been for a serious drop in snatch performance after 1 min all out- this is based on no published observations during my study but if the protocol was meant for runnig it could have easily been done. prolonging the final all out time with snatches it a differnet animal and most people would get a worng result.Cool.
At this point the work duriation has been established (60% of 1 min of the cadence test) and since that equals 36 sec I decided the protocol should have a 1:1 W:R ratio. When the interval work duration is less that 1 min. this is advisable. also based on research (michalisk& Bangsbo) when the intervals gets longer- the rest also has to increase.
So in short. remember that the 60% is derived from the cadence test and nothing else!
For backup to the above, Kenneth references the following article in particular:
It's also cool to note that the above study is based on "moderately" trained runners - so not super jocks. And since this is the level - moderately trained - of where most folks will begin with the VO2max protocol, then there's good reason to use the optimal protocol for this approach in the vo2max effort.
J Sci Med Sport. 2007 Feb;10(1):27-35. Epub 2006 Jul 28.Click here to read Links
Manipulating high-intensity interval training: effects on VO2max, the lactate threshold and 3000 m running performance in moderately trained males.
Esfarjani F, Laursen PB.
School of Science and Physical Education, Esfahan University, Esfahan, Iran.
The aim of this study was to compare the effects of two high-intensity interval training (HIT) programmes on maximal oxygen uptake (.VO(2max)), the lactate threshold (LT) and 3000 m running performance in moderately trained male runners. .VO(2max), the running speed associated with .VO(2max) (V.VO(2max)), the time for which V.VO(2max) can be maintained (T(max)), the running speed at LT (v(LT)) and 3000 m running time (3000 mTT) were determined before and following three different training programmes performed for 10 weeks. Following the pre-test, 17 moderately trained male runners (V O(2max)=51.6+/-2.7ml kg(-1)min(-1)) were divided into training groups based on their 3000 mTT (Group 1, G(1), N=6, 8 x 60% of T(max) at V.VO(2max), 1:1 work:recovery ratio [that should look familiar -mc]; Group 2, G(2), N=6, 12 x 30s at 130% V.VO(2max), 4.5 min recovery; control group, G(CON), N=5, 60 min at 75% V.VO(2max)). G(1) and G(2) performed two HIT sessions and two 60 min recovery run sessions (75% V.VO(2max)) each week. Control subjects performed four 60 min recovery run sessions (75% V.VO(2max)) each week. In G(1), significant improvements (p<0 .05=".05" p="0.07)." style="color: #663300;">HIT programmes in moderately trained runners, but that changes in performance and physiological variables may be more profound using prolonged HIT at intensities of V.VO(2max) with interval durations of 60% T(max).
The other Protocols. Beyond 36:36 there is one preliminary/prepatory protocol before diving into 36:36, and then three other peaking and pushing protocols that focus on both pushing beyong VO2max and on lactic acid tolerance.
Indeed lactic acid is in the title of the three post 36:36 protocols, and its one concept that Viking Warrior Conditioning does not directly explicate. So i asked Kenneth if he could talk about that focus a bit more here. Here's what he said:
Basically production and tolerence of lactic acid is a great indicator of how well your anaerobic system is conditioned. A high production rate means that ATP is synthesized very quickly and a high tolerence rate means that just that- you can continue to work in a very acidic environment.(For a quick overview of ATP, what it is, and why it's important, take a look at the middle-ish of this post on fat-as-fuel.)
Likewise, what about going over VO2max? How can we do something at MORE than 100%? If that more than 100% feels like Spinal Tap's amplifier ("it goes to 11"), then a couple things to remember. First we have more than one energy system we can draw on, each being categorized as aerobic (using oxygen) and anaerobic (not using oxygen). When the aerobic capacity gets tapped out - or we hold our breath for an intense effort - we're drawing on those anaerobic energy levels. I asked KJ if he could describe this beyond 100% V02max capacity, and he came back with the following analogies:
[Going over 100% is possible becuase] the body basically has two ways to make energy: those are aerobic and anaerobic. Aerobic means "with oxygen" and anaerobic means "without oxygen" VO2 is the most acurate way to express how much the AEROBIC system is taxed.Going over 100% VO2max also pushed lactic acid production at a faster rate than a lower rate. So the two effects are strongly related.
When we reach 100% MVO2 we cant get more out of the aerobic system BUT we still have the ANAEROBIC system to push harder. Going above 100%MVO2 just means that you are doing something faster than what your aerobic system can handle alone.
Think about it is way: Ever seen the movie "the Fast and the Furious"? The guys in the film fine tune their cars to the limit. putting in all the right parts- the lightest, most durable stuff, the best turbos etc. that is the equivalent of the VO2max. The cars probably max out at a top speed of 160-170 mph (which we will call 100%) or something like that. BUT then they have the NOS. that injection will make the cars go close to 200 mph or +100%. The NOS = the anaerobic system. Of course that is a very simplified way of looking at it but it gets the idea through. (hopefully)
How Long to Do Them All? Kenneth Jay's protocols, informed by recent research on best-tapping of energy production and tolerances for optimal work. If a person has the stamina to move through each protocol in succession, it will take approximately 30 -36weeks - in other words the better part of a year.
Of course, these protocols are the crown jewels of the book, but as a good coach, Kenneth doesn't simply say here's a bunch of nifty protocols; he provides a few contexts in how they can be applied. Thus the next sections of Viking Warrior Conditioning present how to put these strategies to work.
o Third Movement: Thorolf and Friends
The Protocol section closes with three strategies of how VWC might be adapted to co-exist within anyone's current training practice. This also includes KJ's own prefered approach. But the part of the book that is a particular asset is the case study that follows.
Here we see charted out exactly how one "moderately trained" 35 year old male, Throlof, did following the first four of the five Viking Warrior Conditioning protocols. Each protocol is mapped out on a per session /per week basis to see progression of volume.
We see the calculations for percentage over VO2max worked out to go with particular protocols. The only thing we do not see is Thorlof hooked up to a cart to validate that the calculated VO2max percentatges are validated in practice. Given that these calculations however are based on a lot of research that has been tested, and since we can see Thorlof's progress we can be pretty confident there is a strong progressive effect.
Kenneth Jay also stated in our exchanges that yes Thorolf really exists and yes these are his numbers.
Active Rest. Something also keen to note in the case study are the back off weeks in the program. Either Thorolf has great instincts or a great coach, but he kept himself sane by backing off for a bit and coming back stronger than before for a persistent, consistent linear progression of results over time.
Intervals vs other CV conditioning. Kenneth rounds off the Thorolf section with a nice discussion of the benefit of interval training vs. steady state. This chapter has the unfortunate title of "why the fat burning zone is a joke" but aside from that he makes the now well established case that in 2/3's the time of a steady state 75% Max heart Rate workout one is burning significantly more calories, and hence getting at more fat - so getting lean is good. The section also touches on why intervals like these have other benefits than steady state - and that may be the key thing, more than how many calories are burned or not.
What we know from increasing amounts of data is that, at a certain intensity of effort, things start happening at the DNA level of our responses to demands for fuel that have effects not just on our hearts but on our muscels, too. We touched on this a couple of weeks ago in this research review of the 6mins in 2weeks Efforts and its potential applications.
To complete the discussion on the benefits of Viking Warrior Condition, Kenneth concludes with a discussion on Conditioning and on Power, how they relate and how, not surprisingly, VWC helps develop each of the areas discussed. The discussion on general conditioning is particularly strong, discussing fatigue management, its relation to work capacity and the role of oxygen uptake - the latter being a big chunk of what VO2max work is about.
o Fourth Movement: Real People - well, RKC's and a Fighter- using VWC
What comes as a surprise in the book is the chapter that simply presents 3 RKC's of varrying levels writing about their experience with the VWC protocols. 2 of the 3 writers is a woman. That's cool. It's difficult in reading through these experiences not to see how they might be applicable to a range of athletes. To drive the point home, the section concludes with an interview of Mark O Madsen (also an RKC) who is a "world ranked Greco-Roman wrestler." The core take away from this interview is that the kettlebell is one of many tools the athlete uses regularly, with the 15:15 protocol being his main VWC protocol - from which he's getting a lot of mileage. The take home is this is a serious athlete "ranked 2nd in the world" - so if this approach wasn't working for him in a serious way, it would not be in his training.
o Coda
The book finishes with a review of the RKC hardstyle snatch. In an interview with Geoff Neupert, Kenneth Jay reiterated that he takes as a base level for this protocol someone who has gone through Pavel Tsatsouline's Enter the Kettlebell Program Minimum and Rite of Passage protocols for basic level comfort and control in kettlebell work.
Since this is such a snatch heavy program, seeing an RKC trainer to check snatch form is a Good Idea, too.
Kenneth in his Call to Action promises that Viking Warrior Condition will offer a transformative experience of conditioning like no other. After reading the book, you'll know not only how to make that happen but why these protocols will deliver that. And based on the the testimony of the people in the book, there's excellent support to show that the claims are not unwarranted.A word for Rif. One other voice prefaces the book, Master RKC Mark Reifkind. He has not only written about his experience in the book's forward, but he's chronicled it as well on Rif's blog. His and Tracy Reifkind's progress with these protocols is perhaps kenneth's best testament to their efficacy. Every claim Rif makes in the forward is documented - frequently with video - for all to see.
o Other Athletes: Runners And Rugby Forwards.
Something i've started to investigate with some athletes is how VWC might be interleaved with their running practice to reduce hard miles on their bodies and up their performance. It's early days, but this has promise.
Another place some of us will be looking at in the fall is how VWC can improve the end-of-game stamina of a team's rugby forwards - complementing, not interupting, their pre and in-season training.
o Summary
VIking Warrior Condition is an intense program that promises to deliver persistent, consistent results.
The book may feel thin in the hands at 109 pages, but as such it's also a highly practical, efficient manual that anyone can wrap their heads around in a single sitting, and come back to as necessary when moving up the protocols.
If you're interested in tested practical applications of interval training for cardiovascular fitness, strength and stamina, for excellent conditioning, and would like to use a simple implement to achieve these ends, this is a book worth having, and approach worth practicing.
Let me know how go your results.
Kenneth Jay's Viking Warrior Conditioning, published by Dragon Door, 2008.
Related recommended resources
Enter the Kettlebell
Precision Nutrition
Kettlebells:
In the US: dragondoor kettlebells
In the UK: kettelbell Fever
Related Posts
- Thinking about Cardio with Kettlebells: various approaches - physiology
- A Cardio KB method: running the bells
- Cardio and strength training: does it interfer? how 'bout no.
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